D&D (2024) Creating good stealth rules for 2024 5e

[Stalker0]

After the 10th 100+ post thread about stealth, its clear that the stealth rules are not....ideal. You can argue if they are completely bonkers broken or just "useable with some common sense interpretations" but its clear that a rewrite wouldn't hurt. while other have argued its impossible to make a good set of stealth rules I disagree, and will use this thread as an attempt to write a clear set of stealth rules that cover the majority of common scenarios that players find themselves.

My main goal is the following:

• Integrate passive perception more clearly into the rules.
• Remove the unintended cases like "I can walk in an open room and be completely hidden"
• Clean up the interaction between true invisibility and stealth's invisibility.
• Enhance the clarification of how things like attack break stealth (and whether you get the benefit of stealth for that attack).
• While more rules written here is fine, we still remain with the spirit of 5e rules, aka we aren't going to write a 5 page textpage on stealth. The goal is still to keep stealth within a reasonable ruleset, as its easy to write a 10 page treatise on every possible situation for stealth and create a condition for it....but thats against the principals of 5e and not a true solution to the problem.

So I'll start with my first draft below, and then people are welcome to critique and or suggest edits to get us to a good set of rules.


Hiding and Stealth
As an action, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check against all creatures you have heavy concealment, 3/4 cover, and/or total cover against. The DC = 15 or the creature's passive perception score, whichever is higher. On a success, you gain the Hidden condition against that creature. If a creature was not aware of you when you became Hidden, you gain the Stealth condition against that creature.

Hidden Condition

• This condition applies against specific creatures. It is possible to have this condition against one creature but not another.
• Have advantage on attack rolls.
• Creatures have disadvantage on attacks against you.
• Effects and spells that require sight cannot be used against you.
• Creatures cannot track your movement and must guess what square you are in to attack you, unless they are alerted to your location through other means.

Stealth Condition

• This condition applies against specific creatures. It is possible to have this condition against one creature but not another.
• You gain all the effects of the Hidden condition.
• A creature is completely unaware of your presence. They cannot attempt to find, attack, or use effects that directly target you.
• Gain advantage on Initiative rolls if you have stealth against all enemies rolling initiative.
• Creatures cannot use reactions against your effects.
• If a creature is alerted to your presence through other means, you lose Stealth and gain Hidden instead.
• Any effect that removes the Hidden condition also removes Stealth.

Maintaining Hiding or Stealth
You can maintain the Hidden condition against a creature until immediately after one of the following conditions:

• You are in a creature's line of sight and no longer have concealment or cover.*
• You make a sound louder than a whisper or cast a spell with a verbal component within hearing range of the creature.*
• You make an attack roll.
• A creature spends an action to search for you and succeeds on a Wisdom (Perception) check, DC = to your Dexterity (Stealth) check.

*If movement caused you to lose the Hidden condition, you may still get advantage on one attack made before the end of your turn.

Distraction and Concealment
For purposes of Hiding and Stealth, a DM may rule that you have total concealment against a creature that is distracted by other means.

 

[Reynard]

"Disadvantage on attacks" against an enemy you can't see has always bugged me. it makes sense for actually (magically, one assumes) invisible opponents. But for something like Hidden, it doesn't make much sense because that condition should end once they attack you.

 

[KYRON45]

It would just be easier to ban Stealth at this point.

 

[ezo]

@Stalker0 I wish you luck. Glossing over your OP I think there is one problem with stealth which will never be solved: "good" stealth rules are likely convoluted rules--too much to bother with it frankly.

But, who knows, maybe you will crack the code...

 

[ezo]

But for something like Hidden, it doesn't make much sense because that condition should end once they attack you.

Not really IMO. IRL hunters and snipers can make attacks and the target has no clue where the attack came from.

Even melee attacks, for a highly skilled assassin, could involve a strike and retreat into a place to hide again. The target (likely more focused on the immediate pain of the hit) might not be able to react in time to see where the assassin struck from or went to. We see this all the time in movies, etc. I think many players would expect to be able to do something similar--somehow.

"Disadvantage on attacks" against an enemy you can't see has always bugged me. it makes sense for actually (magically, one assumes) invisible opponents

Part of the issue IMO is how 5E made stealth cover both being hidden and quite. You might hear someone moving in some brush nearby without seeing them, so either you make an attack based solely on where the noise came from (disadvantage) or you happen to see them, but then they likely have cover of some sort (probably 3/4 if you can see them) and get a bonus to AC anyway about the same as imposing disadvantage in many cases.

Frankly, out of everything, this is the sort of stuff that bugs me least.

 

[Reynard]

I would eliminate the use of stealth related conditions entirely. It just creates confusion.

To determine if a hiding character is observed by a creature or character, compare the Stealth check versus the target creatures Perception (Passive or roll, depending on if the creature is actively looking).

If the person hiding has full cover or concealment (behind a door, in total darkness against an enemy without darkvision) the Stealth roll is made with Advantage. If the individual hiding is somehow potentially exposed but still able to hide, such as if they are wearing heavy armor, have a powerful odor, etc..., they have Disadvantage on the roll.

A hidden character is no longer hidden after they complete one of the following: make an attack, cast a spell that has a verbal component, moves into line of sight of the creature they are hiding from, or ends their movement no longer in cover or concealment.

Otherwise, whenever the hiding character performs an action or moves, creatures who may notice are given a new perception roll.

If a creature is hidden from another when it makes an attack, it gets advantage on the attack roll.

 

[Reynard]

Not really IMO. IRL hunters and snipers can make attacks and the target has no clue where the attack came from.

These situation include long ranges and exceptional cover. you could certainly make allowances for that, but generally D&D includes very short ranges. 20 feet is across your living room.

 

[Stalker0]

@Stalker0 I wish you luck. Glossing over your OP I think there is one problem with stealth which will never be solved: "good" stealth rules are likely convoluted rules--too much to bother with it frankly.

Happy to take feedback, which part of my draft did you find too convoluted?

 

[ezo]

but generally D&D includes very short ranges. 20 feet is across your living room.

True, which is why I wrote this:

Part of the issue IMO is how 5E made stealth cover both being hidden and quite. You might hear someone moving in some brush nearby without seeing them, so either you make an attack based solely on where the noise came from (disadvantage) or you happen to see them, but then they likely have cover of some sort (probably 3/4 if you can see them) and get a bonus to AC anyway about the same as imposing disadvantage in many cases.

Frankly, out of everything, this is the sort of stuff that bugs me least.

 

[ezo]

Happy to take feedback, which part of my draft did you find too convoluted?

Before I answer let me ask you this: is your goal to keep it as close to 2024 rules as possible?