D&D (2024) Thoughts on Stealth and D&D2024

[Maxperson]

15 is too high. You won't be found by 90% of the creatures at that number.

You might as well be "invisible".

The check, though, is the DC of the hide roll. See my above post. Where do you get the 15 number?

 

[ezo]

Where do you get the 15 number?

It is the DC for the Dexterity (Stealth) check when you take the Hide action.

This means that in order to Hide, you have to roll 15 or higher as your total. That total (minimum 15) is used for any Wisdom (Perception) check, including Passive Perceptions.

Since most creatures have Passive Perceptions below 15, you won't be found by those creatures.

 

[Maxperson]

HERE
"With the Hide action, you try to conceal yourself. To do so, you must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity (Stealth) check while you’re Heavily Obscured or behind Three-Quarters Cover or Total Cover, and you must be out of any enemy’s line of sight; if you can see a creature, you can discern whether it can see you."

If there is no facing, how can "if you can see a creature, you can discern whether it can see you."
If there is no facing the when you can see them the they can see you. No decerning possible without facing.

Now where is it written there is no facing?

Because you have line of sight in all directions simultaneously from where you stand, because there is no facing. If there were facing, you wouldn't have line of sight to things behind you.

 

[Maxperson]

It is the DC for the Dexterity (Stealth) check when you take the Hide action.

This means that in order to Hide, you have to roll 15 or higher as your total. That total (minimum 15) is used for any Wisdom (Perception) check, including Passive Perceptions.

Since most creatures have Passive Perceptions below 15, you won't be found by those creatures.

Okay. I had forgotten that part. I don't really care for having to roll a 15 to successfully hide. I mean, if you are behind a huge rock, how high should you have to roll to be hidden?

 

[MerricB]

Okay. I had forgotten that part. I don't really care for having to roll a 15 to successfully hide. I mean, if you are behind a huge rock, how high should you have to roll to be hidden?

35. Obviously!

A large part of my (classical) understanding comes from the idea that when you are really hidden, enemies lose track of where you are. They might know where you last were, but not where you are standing at the moment. Back in the 3E days, you'd have to say "I shoot at that square!" and if you were correct, there'd be a 50% miss chance, but if you were wrong, there'd be a 100% miss chance.

If you were invisible and hadn't made a Hide check, they couldn't see you but they knew where you were standing.

And I think a large part of that made it into 2014 - you gained advantage to hiding if you were already invisible.

But I'm not really sure what 2024 rules are meant to represent. If you're "Invisible", do enemies still know where you're standing?

Cheers!

 

[Charlaquin]

Okay. I had forgotten that part. I don't really care for having to roll a 15 to successfully hide. I mean, if you are behind a huge rock, how high should you have to roll to be hidden?

Yeah, the DC should really just be the highest passive Perception among enemies you’re trying to hide from. But, I think the 15 minimum is another one of the decisions made in the interest of making the rule easier for a computer to execute.

 

[MerricB]

Yeah, the DC should really just be the highest passive Perception among enemies you’re trying to hide from. But, I think the 15 minimum is another one of the decisions made in the interest of making the rule easier for a computer to execute.

I see that as a change to make it easier for people. Computers can handle passive Perceptions MUCH better than people.

EDIT: Oh, then there's their Project Sigil. Yeah, perhaps you're right!

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah, the DC should really just be the highest passive Perception among enemies you’re trying to hide from. But, I think the 15 minimum is another one of the decisions made in the interest of making the rule easier for a computer to execute.

I'm not a programmer, but how hard is it to have the computer roll a number and use that number instead of 15. It doesn't seem like such a difficult thing to ask in the age of AI and the computing power computers have these days.

 

[ezo]

I mean, if you are behind a huge rock, how high should you have to roll to be hidden?

Well, IMO you just make the check and that is the total. The DC 15 part is nonsense.

Of course, if you are behind a rock, you're already out of line of sight, and hidden by default. The Stealth check is really do determine if they hear you since they cannot possibly see you.

I've come to the sad conclusion that Stealth in 5E is literally useless, or at least pointless.

You cannot do it if you can be seen, and being Heavily Obscured means you cannot be seen, but if you cannot be seen, why are you hiding?

Total Cover breaks line of sight, so you cannot be seen, so like heavily obscured... why are you hiding? Then there are cases like wall of force, which provides total cover, so you can hide, but the wall is invisible, so you can be seen--and thus you cannot hide after all.

Three-Quarters Cover doesn't break line of sight, so you're seen. Can't hide.

But, I think the 15 minimum is another one of the decisions made in the interest of making the rule easier for a computer to execute.

Trust me, the computer can just as easily determine the maximum passive score to set the DC, with lightning speed.

 

[MerricB]

I'm not a programmer, but how hard is it to have the computer roll a number and use that number instead of 15. It doesn't seem like such a difficult thing to ask in the age of AI and the computing power computers have these days.

I am a programmer, and it's really easy until you go into the land of VTTs and whatever Project Sigil is.

For a game like BG3? Really easy.

Cheers!