Pineapple Express: Someone Is Wrong on the Internet?

[RealAlHazred]

While 4e did have some changes that I liked, I didn't like a lot more of the changes, so we stuck with 3e. The changes to 4e that I didn't like were too baked into the system for me to be able to house rule it into shape like I did with 1e, 2e, 3e and 5e. I would have had to rewrite the edition.

Oh, well, just because I enjoy something doesn't mean I think everyone else has to play it. I've mentioned Hero System a few times in this thread, but I don't go to other threads and post, "You shouldn't use your game for this, you should use Hero System." Even though I think it's a better fit for some of the things people are trying to do.

Mostly because I don't care what other people do. So long as I am not playing at their table, what do I care what they use? They can run FATAL if they want, no skin off my nose.

 

[Maxperson]

Oh, well, just because I enjoy something doesn't mean I think everyone else has to play it. I've mentioned Hero System a few times in this thread, but I don't go to other threads and post, "You shouldn't use your game for this, you should use Hero System." Even though I think it's a better fit for some of the things people are trying to do.

Mostly because I don't care what other people do. So long as I am not playing at their table, what do I care what they use? They can run FATAL if they want, no skin off my nose.

Yeah, well 3e is not only the best edition, it's the only true edition of D&D and the only true RPG out there! You have to play 3e!

 

[Ryujin]

While 4e did have some changes that I liked, I didn't like a lot more of the changes, so we stuck with 3e. The changes to 4e that I didn't like were too baked into the system for me to be able to house rule it into shape like I did with 1e, 2e, 3e and 5e. I would have had to rewrite the edition.

I completely tossed out the Skill Challenges thing. I just don't like paint by numbers success. At one point I had a low CHA character say exactly the right thing, in a diplomatic encounter, and just had them succeed outright. I used pretty much everything else in 4e as written.

 

[payn]

I completely tossed out the Skill Challenges thing. I just don't like paint by numbers success. At one point I had a low CHA character say exactly the right thing, in a diplomatic encounter, and just had them succeed outright. I used pretty much everything else in 4e as written.

I think alot of it was the execution. Just get X amount of successes easily turns into just roll a bunch of skills see what happens. It gets a lot more dynamic if you apply situational context and degrees of success. I am sure presentation had a lot to do with it as the bane of 4E. The naked gamist descriptions just shut off a lot of brains fairly or not.

 

[billd91]

I think alot of it was the execution. Just get X amount of successes easily turns into just roll a bunch of skills see what happens. It gets a lot more dynamic if you apply situational context and degrees of success. I am sure presentation had a lot to do with it as the bane of 4E. The naked gamist descriptions just shut off a lot of brains fairly or not.

Yeah, execution does matter. I don't think they work very well as races (x successes before y failures) compared to situations that take x checks to accomplish, each failure injecting some consequence or degrading the level of success.

 

[Ryujin]

I think alot of it was the execution. Just get X amount of successes easily turns into just roll a bunch of skills see what happens. It gets a lot more dynamic if you apply situational context and degrees of success. I am sure presentation had a lot to do with it as the bane of 4E. The naked gamist descriptions just shut off a lot of brains fairly or not.

As a player I made it my goal to completely derail physical skill challenges. I did it with Rituals, which is an aspect of 4e that I really liked. My Eladrin Feylock wasn't ever going to succeed at climbing anything, for instance, and the same went for a couple of other characters in my party. Fortunately there was a little ritual that created the equivalent of a magical elevator, that took that bit right out of the equation. My ritual spellbooks might have been considered a little... excessive.

The idea that a Rogue or Fighter could pick up ritual spellcasting, as a feat, was something I really liked in the game.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Speaking seriously, I've enjoyed every edition of D&D that I've played: BX, AD&D 1st, 3.0/3.5E, 4E, 5E, and PF 1st. They all have somewhat different things to recommend them. And yet, none of them is my favorite RPG.

Probably 1e/2e (I like both those editions for different reasons) and 3E (3.5 I was less in love with but still enjoyed). By the time 5E came out I was pretty content going back to older editions or retro clones.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I think alot of it was the execution. Just get X amount of successes easily turns into just roll a bunch of skills see what happens. It gets a lot more dynamic if you apply situational context and degrees of success. I am sure presentation had a lot to do with it as the bane of 4E. The naked gamist descriptions just shut off a lot of brains fairly or not.

Another aspect of 4E was it turned off a lot of players who were into optimization. 3E did have issues with that that needed to brought under control, but I think a lot of us imagined that 4E was simply going to be about bringing that stuff into balance while still keeping things largely the same. I wasn't a huge optimizer myself but I ran the game for a number of players who were (the reality of the culture of play then was if you wanted to GM, you needed to learn to optimize). I recall a player getting the 4E books and basically saying "what I lied about third edition was the builds, and this just doesn't excite me". The other crowd I lost were the people were turned off by the gamist language you describe. In the end it was half or more of all players in all the groups I was in who rejected 4E. We did talk one of the groups into some sessions, but I don't think we got past two months before they suggested going back to 3E

 

[trappedslider]

 

[Scribe]

--

I dont know who needs to hear this, those blessed few who have not put me on Ignore, or been Ignored, I guess?

Boil things down, experience a bit of adversity, lift some heavy things if you are able, get into the woods.

Life gets both complicated, and yet very simple, real fast. What matters?

It sure isn't the minutia of a failed edition of ones oldest RPG system. Its not the minutia of anything.

Bring on the asteroid!