D&D 5E Why Do Higher Levels Get Less Play?

[Reynard]

What they know is only 10% of their customers make use of the higher levels.

Again, i think this is because WotC themselves don't make use of those higher levels. until someone can show data that Eve of Ruin, as really the only exclusively high level thing they have produced, only sold 10% of a normal 5E book, I think folks are misattributing reasons here.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No.

The problem is 5e was written for a customer base that isn't it's actual customer base.

It provides tools and has a base system for high level that the people who do play don't want.

High level 5e was designed for half drunk, beer and pretzels, no serious derp play.

What does "derp" mean in this context?

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's simply untrue. 20 million D&D players and the overwhelming majority of them are young. 5e was designed much more for them than for my generation.

And this is completely unproven. None of the new players have ever had working tools. What you are saying is the equivalent of, "Hey, they gave a bunch of people cars that won't move and they didn't like them, so clearly that proves that those people don't want cars."

They have no idea how many of the 20 million would actually play high level if it was well supported.

I would say 5.5 is designed for that base, not WotC 5e as you and I define it.

 

[pawsplay]

You didn't include the obvious answer: because people start at lower levels and progress to higher levels. Statistically, higher level games are going to be less common unless people just started at random levels and never advanced.

 

[Minigiant]

What does "derp" mean in this context?

You're not supposed to think.
Or be too drunk or tired to.

High level D&D is designed around you being less mentally attuned than the DM so you don't overwhelm them.

 

[tetrasodium]

How about several consecutive high level campaigns, then? And played in other well done 5e high level campaig.

Quantity of the single style of high level campaign supported doesn't even pretend to acknowledge that differences in style wrt agency and the world as discussed when this came up are even possible. Your tunnel vision on 5e's single supposed style is so deep that you can't even consider anything else and default to meee quantity alone actually being played even when told about it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You're not supposed to think.
Or be too drunk or tired to.

High level D&D is designed around you being less mentally attuned than the DM so you don't overwhelm them.

Huh. Another thing that the designers should have made clear, if indeed that was the intent.

 

[Minigiant]

Huh. Another thing that the designers should have made clear, if indeed that was the intent.

They kinda did.

The problem is a good half of 5e fans joined the game well after the designers stated the games intended goals.

5e was designed for the older crowd That's why it books in 2014 were written the way they were. They were written for people who already have previous edition books and already had the tools to play low level mid-level and high level in the way that they wished.

But those people continue to play those older the additions majorly. And newer fans came into the game not knowing that the game was designed for a different group of people. Hence the eventual disconnect and why people complain about 5e in the way they do.

 

[Micah Sweet]

They kinda did.

The problem is a good half of 5e fans joined the game well after the designers stated the games intended goals.

5e was designed for the older crowd That's why it books in 2014 were written the way they were. They were written for people who already have previous edition books and already had the tools to play low level mid-level and high level in the way that they wished.

But those people continue to play those older the additions majorly. And newer fans came into the game not knowing that the game was designed for a different group of people. Hence the eventual disconnect and why people complain about 5e in the way they do.

Do the 5e books say that you're supposed to use your earlier edition experience and materials to handle those issues? Or did they just assume that? I don't recall any of what you're saying being stated by WotC.

 

[Minigiant]

Do the 5e books say that you're supposed to use your earlier edition experience and materials to handle those issues? Or did they just assume that? I don't recall any of what you're saying being stated by WotC.

It wasn't in the books
It was the entire department design philosophy of the edition.

That's why there are so many "holes" in the mechanics, why the designers missed "obvious" combos and interactions, and why so many pages are dedicated to "useless" information.

The game was designed for people who already had information and did not want to be told what to do.

So surprise surprise they did not print that information.