D&D General What Is D&D Generally Bad At That You Wish It Was Better At?

Pretty much, yeah. I mean, what does it say when the game has rules for exhaustion, starvation, and exposure to elements, like these are meant to be big hurdles, then gives the players abilities that lets them laugh these things off by level 5 at the latest?

That by 5th level characters are competent adventurers that are steps above normal people and should not be getting majorly sidelined by mundane challenges that inflict these things but instead should be dealing with magical hazards & supernatural dangers that can inflict these same effects...
 

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No system can actually deal with that. It's a special case of a general problem that no system can take the player entirely out of the character. Players have to make choices, and if they are terrible at making choices no system can protect them from that. You can have the most system capable fighter possible, but if you are bad at skirmish tactics or ignore basic tactical ideas like don't get separated or don't let yourself get surrounded your fighter will underperform in numerous combat situations.
are you interpreting Gobhag's 'social gamplay' as social mechanics or as roleplaying(closer to 'social deduction' as it exists in the context of games like among us)? i interpreted their post as the latter given the context and what it was responding to, but your response comes across as if you interpreted it as the former
 

That by 5th level characters are competent adventurers that are steps above normal people and should not be getting majorly sidelined by mundane challenges that inflict these things but instead should be dealing with magical hazards & supernatural dangers that can inflict these same effects...
I think where that line is appropriately tuned to is something that varies a lot between folks. Personally I think 5th level is way too low to assume all mundane challenges should be trivial.
 

D&D is pretty bad at intrigue because you need more than a minimalist ruleset for it.

It doesn't need social combat rules, but it needs some kind of system that lets you concretely influence organisations without being in direct contact them. Blades in the Dark can do this, as can Wicked Ones and Lancer. You want clocks and ideally "downtime actions".

If there are no rules there is nothing concrete to interact with. D&D is imo a worse system for intrigue than something designed for that purpose.

5e at least... has this. The attutudes of NPC's or factions act as a clock that the DM then decides how many actions are needed to shift it towards the desired result. 5e also has downtime actions that can influence organizations.
 

I think where that line is appropriately tuned to is something that varies a lot between folks. Personally I think 5th level is way too low to assume all mundane challenges should be trivial.
Well the PHB does give us guidance on tiers of play and at 5th level (2nd tier)...

In the second tier (levels 5–10), characters come into their own. Many spellcasters gain access to 3rd-level spells at the start of this tier, crossing a new threshold of magical power with spells such as fireball and lightning bolt. At this tier, many weapon-using classes gain the ability to make multiple attacks in one round. These characters have become important, facing dangers that threaten cities and kingdoms.

I just don't see characters that are facing threats to entire cities and kingdoms as having major issues dealing with a thunderstorm...
 

are you interpreting Gobhag's 'social gamplay' as social mechanics or as roleplaying(closer to 'social deduction' as it exists in the context of games like among us)? i interpreted their post as the latter given the context and what it was responding to, but your response comes across as if you interpreted it as the former

I interpret Gobhag as saying that a player who isn't skilled at intrigue and social deduction or manipulation needs rules to support their character being skilled at such things because otherwise the player is denied the ability to play a character who has skills and talents they don't have. In other words, this hypothetical unskilled player would have more fun with a metagame of dice rolling and social combat mechanics than they would acting out in a thespian manner "courtly intrigue" since they'd fail at it and only be frustrated. We can imagine a player who is shy, stutters, is socially awkward, or whatever and as such who doesn't want to role-play by acting and who would rather role-play through some non-social interaction.

And, I agree to some extent with Gobhag's claim that it may well be the case that a hypothetical unskilled player would enjoy more a metagame of dice rolling than they would acting out "courtly intrigue". However, I would protest that:

a) The resulting game would not be a role-playing game of "courtly intrigue" because it would not produce a concrete transcript of play. The dice couldn't in fact create what words were said or precisely what plots were engaged in or allow us to understand why someone rose or loss in popularity and reputation at the court beyond that the dice dictated that they did.
b) To the extent that the metagame of courtly intrigue had very close approximation of real-life courtly intrigue, the hypothetical inept player would also be inept at the metagame because they would just as poorly understand the nuances and strategies of the metagame as they would actually courtly intrigue. In the same fashion that we could provide the player with a skilled warrior, but if he didn't understand concentration of force, use of terrain, economy of force, and so forth that are necessary to succeed on the battlefield, we could provide the player with a charismatic discerning character but if he made uncharismatic and undiscerning choices, chose weak allies who we doomed to sink just because he liked them, took rash actions that offended key persons, and so forth eventually he'd place himself in difficulties his charisma bonuses couldn't compensate for. Indeed, his charisma might realistically make him a target that would line up enemies and alliances against him in ways the player couldn't foresee. The more realistic the metagame, the worse the player would perform in it regardless of the character sheet.
c) To the extent that we could pad the player against his choices so that his character performs well regardless of the situation, we could only do this by taking away the player's agency in subtle ways. Usually this is done by having the GM say in some fashion, "You don't want to do that." or "This is what your character understands." or having the GM actually be the one that creates that character's transcript by putting suitable words in the characters mouth (effectively turning the PC into an NPC). But this doesn't really solve the problem, in as much as we still don't have the player playing a character he's unable to play, we just foist that responsibility off on the GM.

Fundamentally, it's not possible to both have an RPG and have a situation where a player can successfully be anything he wants. There are just somethings you can't put in by mechanics, which is generally not something which players with the aesthetic of Fantasy want to hear, but it's true anyway. The player's mind always exists in the game universe to some extent, and we can't take it out. And that the player's mind is actually the character's mind means that if it is a game then it is also an imperfect simulation. And if it is a perfect simulation, then it isn't a game, since the player would then only be observing rather than participating.
 


I don't see how those things are connected at all.
You don't see how the type of challenges PV's face are connected?

Edit: i have the personal physical or magical power to protect a city or kingdom... but I'm felled by strong rain or not being able to catch a rabbit to eat? That makes sense to you?
 


You don't see how the type of challenges PV's face are connected?

Edit: i have the personal physical or magical power to protect a city or kingdom... but I'm felled by strong rain or not being able to catch a rabbit to eat? That makes sense to you?
I think you are filling in a lot of gaps with your own interpretation of what "protect the kingdom" means. Moreover, combat prowess or power does not necessarily translate to survival skills. You can't hunt a rabbit with a howitzer.

What I am guessing is that you think those mundane aspects of play are boring, or even actively unfun. And so you are translating that to saying what's good.
 

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