D&D (2024) Is a heavy armored monk feasible?

[Snarf Zagyg]

It doesn't get rid of mobility because you can still bonus action dash or even dash and disengage. It reduces your speed, but you are still the most mobile class in the game even without the speed boost.

Um ... so you still have some ribbons, but you are losing the base speed.

When you are wearing armor, you basically lose all unarmed strike capacity.

You lose your bonus strike.
You lose your martial arts die.
You lose the ability to substitute dexterity for strength (unarmed and monk weapons*).
You lose the ability to sub in dex for grapple and shove.

*Monk weapons are simple melee or martial melee with light. Don't forget that monks have no weapon mastery, so if you're going weapons, that's a multiclass. And the monk now needs dexterity, wisdom, constitution, and likely strength.

Right there? That sucks. Who is going to use unarmed strike now? Can't do it as a bonus (flurry of blows). Does no damage. And if you want to use a strength weapon, that's another ability.

Next, you still have stunning strike, but that only activates with unarmed strikes (not doing any damage, and no bonus attack) and monk weapons.
You lose empowered strikes, because you're not using unarmed strikes.
You lose acrobatic movement.
You lose heightened flurry of blow, because you can't flurry of blows.

Also? A lot of subclass abilities are keyed on abilities you have lost. Shadow Flurry. Empowered Strikes.

But take the Open Hand (PLEASE!).
You lose all the level three abilities. You basically lose level 11. And level 17.

All of this is assuming, of course, that you retain the abilities that advance with the martial arts die. Because getting the martial arts die? Requires no armor.


Again, people should do the things that make them happy. But this seems a lot like playing a wizard without spells. Sure, you can do it, but why?

 

[TheSword]

Um ... so you still have some ribbons, but you are losing the base speed.

When you are wearing armor, you basically lose all unarmed strike capacity.

You lose your bonus strike.
You lose your martial arts die.
You lose the ability to substitute dexterity for strength (unarmed and monk weapons*).
You lose the ability to sub in dex for grapple and shove.

*Monk weapons are simple melee or martial melee with light. Don't forget that monks have no weapon mastery, so if you're going weapons, that's a multiclass. And the monk now needs dexterity, wisdom, constitution, and likely strength.

Right there? That sucks. Who is going to use unarmed strike now? Can't do it as a bonus (flurry of blows). Does no damage. And if you want to use a strength weapon, that's another ability.

Next, you still have stunning strike, but that only activates with unarmed strikes (not doing any damage, and no bonus attack) and monk weapons.
You lose empowered strikes, because you're not using unarmed strikes.
You lose acrobatic movement.
You lose heightened flurry of blow, because you can't flurry of blows.

Also? A lot of subclass abilities are keyed on abilities you have lost. Shadow Flurry. Empowered Strikes.

But take the Open Hand (PLEASE!).
You lose all the level three abilities. You basically lose level 11. And level 17.

All of this is assuming, of course, that you retain the abilities that advance with the martial arts die. Because getting the martial arts die? Requires no armor.


Again, people should do the things that make them happy. But this seems a lot like playing a wizard without spells. Sure, you can do it, but why?

Maybe the bigger question would be, what do you gain by being a monk?

Ki abilities?

 

[mellored]

But this seems a lot like playing a wizard without spells. Sure, you can do it, but why?

A spell-less wizard is not feasible.

But maybe I we can discuss a Str one in another thread.

 

[ECMO3]

Right there? That sucks. Who is going to use unarmed strike now? Can't do it as a bonus (flurry of blows). Does no damage. And if you want to use a strength weapon, that's another ability.

You can use Flurry of Blows.

There are three ways to increase your damage:
1. Tavern Brawler origin feat
2. Unarmed combat fighting style (from your multiclass that gave you armor)
3. Race with unarmed strike ability

You also can use Stunning Strike with Flurry of Blows.

As far as dexterity yes, but if you are playing an Armored Monk you are going to usually want to attack grapple or shove with Strength anyway.

Even if you don't take one of these to boost damage, you can still use FOB to grapple or shove or both.

Next, you still have stunning strike, but that only activates with unarmed strikes (not doing any damage, and no bonus attack) and monk weapons.
You lose empowered strikes, because you're not using unarmed strikes.

You do not lose empowered strikes.

Also? A lot of subclass abilities are keyed on abilities you have lost. Shadow Flurry. Empowered Strikes.

Yes, this does not work with some of the subclasses, others it works fine. Shadow it works fine.

Again, people should do the things that make them happy. But this seems a lot like playing a wizard without spells. Sure, you can do it, but why?

Well seems like, but you are not looking at what you are getting. What you lose is pretty small, especially at high level.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

A spell-less wizard is not feasible.

But maybe I we can discuss a Str one in another thread.

As I wrote before, I love seeing creative use of classes! Sign me up for the strength build wizard.

But while a spell-less wizard (heh, bub, I still say MAGIC USER because, um, they use magic?) might not be feasible, an armored monk is pretty much the same. It's not like an armored barbarian where you just give up the whole "unarmored" part.

So many monk abilities require you to be unarmored. I listed them. I'm guessing people forgot that being unarmored is a predicate for those level 1 features, which in turn are predicates for later abilities.

And it also hits the subclasses real hard. Of the official ones we have, Speak to the Fist Open Hand is right out, and so is Mercy. Shadow loses some top-end stuff, and ... no idea about Way of the Ripoff Airbender.

It also requires a ruling-
Martial Arts Die is an ability you get at level one. And the wording states "You gaines the following benefits while ... you aren't wearing armor or wielding a shield."

I mean, I didn't list all those. But the RAW indicate that the other abilities you use that reference your martial arts die? You don't get those either, because the martial arts die is a benefit you gain when you are unarmored.

Basically, you're losing almost all monk abilities. Why are you playing a monk if you self-nerf almost every ability you have?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

You can use Flurry of Blows.

Flurry of blows allows you to use a focus point to get two unarmed strikes instead of one as a bonus action.

But you don't get the bonus unarmed strike.

 

[mellored]

Flurry of blows allows you to use a focus point to get two unarmed strikes instead of one as a bonus action.

But you don't get the bonus unarmed strike.

It doesn't say instead.

"Flurry of Blows. You can expend 1 Focus Point to make two Unarmed Strikes as a Bonus Action."

Useless for damage, but you can still use them to grapple and prone, or stunning strike.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

It doesn't say instead.

"Flurry of Blows. You can expend 1 Focus Point to make two Unarmed Strikes as a Bonus Action."

Useless for damage, but you can still use them to grapple and prone, or stunning strike.

Yeah, no.

A monk gets one bonus unarmed strike from martial arts. You know, "You can make an Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action."

Flurry of blows lets you turn that martial arts ability (literally called "Bonus Unarmed Strike"" into two.

Watch-

"You can make an Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action."
"You can expend 1 Focus Point to make two Unarmed Strikes as a Bonus Action."

See?

Look, I'll let y'all be, because this feel like the point when people try to parse rules, and given my day job, I'll let you at it. You're not at my table. But any person I played with who tried to argue that they couldn't use the bonus unarmed strike because of armor, but they do get two unarmed strikes when they spend an FP ... even though flurry uses identical wording and adds another unarmed strike that you only can use if you don't have armor on? ... well, good luck to 'em.

 

[ECMO3]

Maybe the bigger question would be, what do you gain by being a monk?

At Will:
Bonus action Dash
Bonus action disengage
All save proficiencies
Deflect Attacks/Energy
Superior Defense
Evasion

Ki abilities?

Using Ki:
Flurry of Blows
Stunning Strike
Patient Defense - Dodge
Step of the Wind - Dash
Most of Heightened Focus
Disciplined Survivor

All this plus any relevant subclass abilities.

 

[ECMO3]

Watch-

"You can make an Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action."
"You can expend 1 Focus Point to make two Unarmed Strikes as a Bonus Action."

Exactly, you can't do the first one, you can do the second.

I played with who tried to argue that they couldn't use the bonus unarmed strike because of armor, but they do get two unarmed strikes when they spend an FP ... even though flurry uses identical wording and adds another unarmed strike that you only can use if you don't have armor on? ... well, good luck to 'em.

Homebrew to suit your table is fine. IF we are talking about the rules though, they are clear though. You don't get martial arts in armor. So no free bonus action attack, no martial arts die, no using dex on your weapons and unarmed strikes. Those are all part of that.

This has nothing to do with Flurry of Blows though or any of your Monk focus abilities*

* Note with Heightened Focus-Patient Defense you don't get the temp hit points because you don't have a martial arts die.