D&D General D&D Editions: Anybody Else Feel Like They Don't Fit In?

[Mannahnin]

Streamlining often = boring. I loved that mages and thieves were weak initially but could level quickly.

Magic-Users leveled slower than Fighters. At least until higher levels, weirdly.

Thieves leveled faster, but were so weak that being a level ahead was rarely enough to make up for it, though it was nice in theory.

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

That is one thing I like about Shadowdark. Given that different characters can get different amounts of bonus experience points through carousing, they can be of slightly different levels at any given time.

 

[Lanefan]

Magic-Users leveled slower than Fighters. At least until higher levels, weirdly.

Indeed, as written MU level progression really makes no sense; in comparison to the average of other classes they start out slow, then at about 6th level speed up dramatically, then at name level slow down again to about the overall average.

That said, compared to most other kitbashing projects tweaking the advancement chart is a triviality.

Thieves leveled faster, but were so weak that being a level ahead was rarely enough to make up for it, though it was nice in theory.

They're not perfect, but at the same time not as bad as they're made out to be. Giving them access to a slightly wider weapon selection and-or allowing them to use some previously-Fighter-only magic items can make a huge difference.

 

[Lanefan]

That is one thing I like about Shadowdark. Given that different characters can get different amounts of bonus experience points through carousing, they can be of slightly different levels at any given time.

More important is whether and-or how well the system can handle the presence of characters of different levels within the party. The TSR editions were quite good for this, while 3e was awful - being just a level behind the rest of the party made you close to useless.

 

[Spellslinging Sellsword]

I think 5E's subclasses can easily be co-opted into making 2E style kits.

 

[Azzy]

I think 5E's subclasses can easily be co-opted into making 2E style kits.

There was/is a I thread on which 3e prestige classes would make good 5e subclasses. That had me thinking about which 2e kits would make good 5e subclasses.

 

[Azzy]

I'm not even sure NWPs fit as distinctly 2e, as nearly-identical mechanisms showed up in late 1E (OA, WSG, DSG).

Great question! The whole push for backwards compatibility means there's very little under the sun that is truly and uniquely 2E AD&D, at least until the Player's Option series. There are a few rebuilt systems where the specific implementation isn't found in 1E(/OSRIC) or in B-BECMI (and thus shows up in OSR material). Off the top of my head (and here just identifying them, not weighing in on whether I'd want to see them), I thin there's:

• AD&D 2E's initiative rules
• unarmed attack, grappling, and martial arts re-works (a few attempts, IIRC)
• Priest Spell spheres
• Specialty Priests
• Bard and Thief player choosing of ability % distribution
• Kits
• The Psionicist Class
• Wild Magic
• 'historic' wordlbooks (the green-bound leatheret splatbooks)
• PO: Spells and Magic alternate spellcasting rules
• Some PO: Combat and Tactics combat rules (ex. attacks of opportunity)

Most all the rest are seen elsewhere. As I mentioned, NWPs are late 1E. As are specific campaign worlds with their own rule changes*. Playing as non-human/non-demihumans shows up elsewhere**. Non-illusionist school specialists (evokers, etc.) are new to 2e, but with the precedence set by illusionists (and Dragonlance robe-based specialties), I'm not sure if they can be called new or not. Psionics have been around since supplement-era oD&D.
*BECMI also has with Hollow World
**although the Complete Humanoids Handbook might have been the first that allowed high-powered creatures like Ogre Magi to be played at 2-3x xp cost, that might be new

Personally:

• Of these, I would love to revisit Specialty Priests, Kits, Wild Magic, and Psionicists.
• I think specific OSR game or setting books would be great places to explore a Viking- or Charlamagne setting, or use an alternate magic style.
• I think things like thieves/bards distributing their %s should be part of an overall re-think on their abilities (perhaps in conjunction with a reassessment of the skill systems in general). I think a lot of OSR games do play around with this, specifically because it's part of the TSR era on which a lot of people have mixed feelings.
• Likewise, certain rules like grappling and zone of control* are those that the game never really got right, and I think a lot of people are already working on those.*i.e. 'why not rush past the fighters to kill the magic users once play leaves 10' wide corridors and parties with 6-600 hirelings and retainers?'

Specialty priests and specialist wizards actually predate 2e (by about 2 years) and were (in an early form) in the 1e Dragonlance Adventures book.

 

[Wolfpack48]

Magic-Users leveled slower than Fighters. At least until higher levels, weirdly.

Thieves leveled faster, but were so weak that being a level ahead was rarely enough to make up for it, though it was nice in theory.

Ah you’re right, it was Thieves that had the fast track xp. Still, I always liked that you might have different level PCs within the party and that xp rates changed as you rose in level. The backstabbing could be quite powerful if played well.

 

[Minigiant]

I don't fit in in most fantasy RPGs.

My personal preference is worlds with magic where the magic, monsters, heroes, and villains actually act like how they would if magic spells and items exist. Not crafted in the form of some artificial narrative for a novel.

A high level Archmage is in a tower in the middle of nowhere because he's likely has a ton of enemies and a ton of people who want to exploit his power. And the more he uses his magical power for people who have to gold the more likely there are people who also sending assassins to kill him.

Therefore there would be a heavy push into the sticky classes being good made killers.

And of course before such a magic users become art majors, Rich nobility and royalty would invest in this magic power this second it becomes known. So many of the magical schools would be either to create and turn out tons of humanoid artillery men or humanoid computers.

Thus every war would have a couple random dudes in robes chucking fire ice and lightning at charging cavalry in shark tubes which then would roll back into warriors being extremely magically resistant or have an option of choosing anti-magic defenses.

So yeah all of the goblins in the orcs and the bandits and the barbarians would have some guys or three with crooked staffs chucking dark energy at you in any random accounter.

But D&D and most of the fantasy RPGs either stick to the tropes of Medieval/Renaissance "real life" with elves, dragons, and magic painted in the dark or heroic. They create a theme then the mechanics then layer a setting on top of it. Rather than theme setting and then mechanics.

You only see it ever really in that way in urban fantasy RPGs and space fantasy RPGs. Or RPGs based off of actual war games bike Warhammer.

 

[Remathilis]

Wars/Trek isn't what it was when I* discovered them. Comics aren't what they used to be. And the music kids are listening to these days! And so on. Seems to be a truism about life (albeit accelerated by increased rate of technological innovation, plus that old IPs are sticking around such that there actually are updated versions of fictional things).
*for a millions or billions of individual 'I's.

Oh, absolutely. It's not a unique phenomenon to gaming. You find a lot of that in almost anything that has lasted for a length of time. People become nostalgic for when they discovered a thing. That alone will color a perception. That's not to say comics or music or D&D was bad before, but the fact it has gotten "worse" has less to do with it and more to do with the viewer's taste changing. This conversation has played out in every human pursuit.