Pineapple Express: Someone Is Wrong on the Internet?

[overgeeked]

I think a lot of them also expect the audience to be invested in the franchise, and if you aren't, it is sort of meh about the hero. Plus, formulaic, in that you know who is going to win, it is only see how they win. I mean, had the space princess and dark jedi been killed by the emperor's guard, shocker! lol Never was going to happen.

Yeah. That's why superheroes are spandex-clad soap operas. You know the hero's going to win so they have to spice up the B story with a body count and add a heaping buttload of melodrama.

 

[dragoner]

Yeah. That's why superheroes are spandex-clad soap operas. You know the hero's going to win so they have to spice up the B story with a body count and add a heaping buttload of melodrama.

There is a certain hilarity to think of if they actually did die, then it's roll credits! People would be like wtf?

 

[overgeeked]

There is a certain hilarity to think of if they actually did die, then it's roll credits! People would be like wtf?

Not for long though. In comics they'd just bring the dead back to life. It would all be a dream or they'd realize it's a simulation, an alternate dimension, alternate reality, someone would time travel and fix it, on and on and on. Gods I love comic books.

Speaking of, besides things like Game of Thrones, are there any stories that even come close to the random and pointless deaths you see in old-school fantasy gaming? War stories, sure. But they'll generally have a highly-paid cast that survives most of the run time. You don't have Tom Hanks in your D-Day movie only for him to get shot dead on the beach in the opening scene.

 

[dragoner]

Speaking of, besides things like Game of Thrones, are there any stories that even come close to the random and pointless deaths you see in old-school fantasy gaming? War stories, sure. But they'll generally have a highly-paid cast that survives most of the run time. You don't have Tom Hanks in your D-Day movie only for him to get shot dead on the beach.

It doesn't make sense, only humorous in an absurdist way. Most books don't kill the hero either, though also one often really doesn't get to know the enemy or villain such as with Headey or Ledger. They did such a good job, one wants to see more of them on the screen. Star Wars prequels were kind of weird, in that it is actually all about Vader. Sort of an anti-hero's journey arc through them all.

 

[Hussar]

Heh. It always makes me giggle when someone tries to claim simplicity in AD&D.

Simple scenario. 3rd level fighter in chainmail and shield armed with a longsword is being attacked by three orcs - 2 in leather armor, one in chainmail, one armed with a spear, one with a morning star and one with a longsword. They are fighting on uneven ground with hillocks.

How many steps do you have to go through to calculate what each of those orcs need to hit that fighter?

1. Each orc needs to consult the weapon vs armor table - as each one is armed with a different weapon and will have a different modifier.
2. The target number of each orc will change depending on the order that you roll the attacks as the fighter's shield will only work against a certain number of orcs. Note, we need more information about the fighter's shield because at this point we can't actually answer how many attacks will be affected by the shield.
3. Despite a system that claims not to need to use minis, we need the exact positioning of each orc to know if any of them are at a higher elevation than the fighter.
4. We also need to know the exact positioning of the orcs since the space/reach of each weapon is different, meaning that we don't actually know whether or not all three orcs could attack the fighter.

Now, let's do the same set up for 4e.

Fighter has an AC of X. Orcs have an attack bonus of Y. Their target number is X-Y. Done.

Tell me again how AD&D is so much simpler than 4e. In a system where you need to calculate the volume of an irregular space in order to know the results of an area of effect spell - something that requires pretty advanced math - claiming simplicity is pretty laughable.

 

[Deset Gled]

Speaking of, besides things like Game of Thrones, are there any stories that even come close to the random and pointless deaths you see in old-school fantasy gaming?

Gunsmoke, maybe? More so the radio show than the TV series. Random death is obviously more common in any episodic "traveling hero" series. Gunsmoke is no different where the core cast (Matt Dillon, Doc, Miss Kitty, Chester) has standard plot immunity.

But the supporting cast has a higher mortality rate than you might expect. Most importantly, there are no "safe" roles. The show is not afraid to kill people of any gender or age to start off an adventure, and the villains all have a chance of dying. But beyond that, lots of other people die that you might not expect. There are episodes where witnesses, secondary victims, or just random people that you meet can end up dead. And not just by murder, either. Disease, accidents, or lots of other things can happen.

 

[Mannahnin]

Heh. It always makes me giggle when someone tries to claim simplicity in AD&D.

Simple scenario. 3rd level fighter in chainmail and shield armed with a longsword is being attacked by three orcs - 2 in leather armor, one in chainmail, one armed with a spear, one with a morning star and one with a longsword. They are fighting on uneven ground with hillocks.

How many steps do you have to go through to calculate what each of those orcs need to hit that fighter?

1. Each orc needs to consult the weapon vs armor table - as each one is armed with a different weapon and will have a different modifier.
2. The target number of each orc will change depending on the order that you roll the attacks as the fighter's shield will only work against a certain number of orcs. Note, we need more information about the fighter's shield because at this point we can't actually answer how many attacks will be affected by the shield.
3. Despite a system that claims not to need to use minis, we need the exact positioning of each orc to know if any of them are at a higher elevation than the fighter.
4. We also need to know the exact positioning of the orcs since the space/reach of each weapon is different, meaning that we don't actually know whether or not all three orcs could attack the fighter.

Now, let's do the same set up for 4e.

Fighter has an AC of X. Orcs have an attack bonus of Y. Their target number is X-Y. Done.

Left out flanking in both examples. In 4E just for Combat Advantage, but in 1E it's also under your point 4, since which and whether attacks will ignore the shield also depends on positioning, and if one of the orcs happens to be making a rear attack it get +2 to hit and ignores both the shield and Dex.

But yeah, exactly.

 

[payn]

So, I has suspicions of where you were going with this, but now I absolutely know. Sorry I cant follow ya to the coolaid stand.

 

[CleverNickName]

So the house inspection was yesterday, we put together a list of buyer concessions and the seller has agreed to most of them (particularly the roof replacement, which was a major sticking point for us). Now all I've got to do is muster the down payment and sign the mortgage. ~gulp

Buying a house is a huge pain.

 

[prabe]

So the house inspection was yesterday, we put together a list of buyer concessions and the seller has agreed to most of them (particularly the roof replacement, which was a major sticking point for us). Now all I've got to do is muster the down payment and sign the mortgage. ~gulp

Buying a house is a huge pain.

It's a pain, yeah. I'm glad things seem to be moving the right direction for you.