I am surprised I am still excited for Daggerheart

[Crusadius]

Ah. So was it an error? Did they accidentally ship some early?

Yes. I am a recipient of this unforced error and have the core set. I posted a pic earlier of the core set but ask that you don’t look at them (or at the very least close your eyes if you click on it) so you aren’t spoiled by pics of the book cover and insides of the card box but I’m not planning to spoil anything nor do an unboxing (unboxed already and I don’t have any time powers that would allow me to un-unbox it).

 

[Ruin Explorer]

"Spoiler" is usually something that would ruin the experience. Hearing the ending of a book or movie for example. I can't think of anything in this book that would ruin the experience if I heard about it early. But that's just me. They're in their right to ask people not to share the content early.

Yeah it makes sense to ask people not to share unreleased material, but the idea that this is a spoiler is pretty silly.

I have noticed that some people really toss around the word spoiler absolutely willy-nilly and with very little relationship to what actually is even arguably a spoiler, though. It's not even really new - people have been doing it for at least a decade, maybe more.

 

[SteveC]

Every time people bring up Daggerheart as a fantasy heartbreaker that will get no support (as evidenced by nothing, I will add), I'll point to the DC20 RPG as the 100% better example example of a game with no future and supplying no real reason for anyone concerned about a game line to buy the core book.

DH will sell like gangbusters in its first year or so of life and its future will be fueled by an actual play from the world's most popular actual play streamers. Beyond that, I've no idea if it'll be any kind of perennial seller but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

I pretty much agree Daggerheart is really not a D&D adjacent game. It is very different. I think people who just want a "D&D done right" game won't be happy with it.

And I don't know anything much about DC20 but have some friends who've met the author and described him as a super nice and motivated guy ... who hasn't played almost anything but D&D. So I suspect you're likely to be right about that game as well, but there is a big following for it, so who knows?

 

[mamba]

Every time people bring up Daggerheart as a fantasy heartbreaker that will get no support (as evidenced by nothing, I will add), I'll point to the DC20 RPG as the 100% better example example of a game with no future

there can be more than one heartbreaker, also do you have any evidence for your DC20 claim, or is it basically the same you accuse the DH critics of?

 

[overgeeked]

Yes. I am a recipient of this unforced error and have the core set. I posted a pic earlier of the core set but ask that you don’t look at them (or at the very least close your eyes if you click on it) so you aren’t spoiled by pics of the book cover and insides of the card box but I’m not planning to spoil anything nor do an unboxing (unboxed already and I don’t have any time powers that would allow me to un-unbox it).

If you change your mind, I'll gladly read whatever spoilers you're willing to provide.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

there can be more than one heartbreaker, also do you have any evidence for your DC20 claim, or is it basically the same you accuse the DH critics of?

I'd not seen DC20 before, but looking at it, it looks like an absolutely classic modern take on the "Fantasy Heartbreaker" in that:

A) It's targeting the exact same audience as D&D.

B) It claims their rules are "better", and I can't comment if that's true or not, but they're clearly as complex as 5E 2024's rules, and don't, fundamentally, appear to offer anything very different to them. They do seem to have enough differences to active the "heartbreak" aspect if you like those differences though.

C) The tone and subject matter of the game seem to identical to D&D.

D) It doesn't seem to have some kind of overwhelmingly popular brand or IP or the like associated with it.

Like, even a random OSR game looks like less of a "Fantasy Heartbreaker"!

B, C, and D are not true for Daggerheart, or massively less true. And A is arguable at best for Daggerheart. Daggerheart may succeed or not, but it's not a "Fantasy Heartbreaker", because, fundamentally, it's not just "My D&D is better than official D&D!".

Note that success is part of what ultimately defines a "Fantasy Heartbreaker" - if DC20 is extremely successful, it will retroactively become "not a Heartbreaker". That's how it works. Fundmentally Pathfinder had basically all the characteristics of a Fantasy Heartbreaker, except kind of D, because it did have a pretty popular brand associated with it. However, it hit at a very tricky time in D&D's history, when a ton of people had a lot of unplayed 3.5E material (often much of it Paizo adventures), and 4E had proven very divisive, so it managed to succeed. Maybe DC20 will, but I think it's fair to call that a potential "Fantasy Heartbreaker" based on their website and PDFs, whereas Daggerheart is just a fantasy RPG, not a Heartbreaker, because it's not just a "My D&D is better" game.

 

[mamba]

Maybe DC20 will, but I think it's fair to call that a potential "Fantasy Heartbreaker" based on their website and PDFs, whereas Daggerheart is just a fantasy RPG, not a Heartbreaker, because it's not just a "My D&D is better" game.

If you make this about the heartbreaker / 'D&D but better' side, then yes. I was more looking at the bolded bits

Every time people bring up Daggerheart as a fantasy heartbreaker that will get no support (as evidenced by nothing, I will add), I'll point to the DC20 RPG as the 100% better example example of a game with no future

 

[aramis erak]

That is a very strange take. GMs can just make "material."

Many won't. Some genuinely can't.
I'm lazy, and I'll admit it. I prefer to use published expansion material.

A game can be complete and good without constant support.

But not without a certain minimum of support, at least IMO.

AW got a lot of support early on, not in books, but in Vincent, and his friends (including Luke Crane and Jared Sorenson, and of course, Meg) answering questions on it in various places. That created a lot of people able to grasp it and provide support...

There are multiple kinds of support. The ones I am interested in for a typical dungeoncrawler are canned dungeons.
For non-dungeon, I want NPCs, settings, and plots. In other words, adventures.

For Alien and Coriolis, I want more ships and more hull sizes, more character archetypes. Adventures are good, too.

Most in print games have discussion board as a form of support, too...

 

[Aldarc]

Every time people bring up Daggerheart as a fantasy heartbreaker that will get no support (as evidenced by nothing, I will add), I'll point to the DC20 RPG as the 100% better example example of a game with no future and supplying no real reason for anyone concerned about a game line to buy the core book.

Has the following and community for DC20 died up in the past year?

 

[Arilyn]

Has the following and community for DC20 died up in the past year?

Don't believe so. It had an extremely successful Kickstarter. People just seem to want to tear this game down as a heartbreaker. As long as it delivers, and I see no reason why it wouldn't, it's not a heartbreaker. Heartbreakers are unsold games sitting in designers' garages.