D&D 5E I feel like the surveys gaslit WotC about """"Backwards Compatibility""""

[Minigiant]

4e did have a character builder, first an offline program and later an online-only one. Both were excellent and regularly updated while they were being supported.

What 4e did not have was an online tabletop. That was what the project that ended in tragedy was supposed to deliver. 4e did play perfectly fine on a regular tabletop with miniatures though. It is possible that an online tabletop would have made 4e more accessible to gamers without extensive miniatures collections. We will never know if that would have been enough to deliver the kind of profits Hasbro wanted from D&D, but I am skeptical.

4e needed tech to handle the fiddly bits.

A year in 4e got really fiddly because the easy stuff was handled in the 1st set of core books. If 4e was more like Essentials at launch, it could have longer mechanical life, easier tabletop play, and less stress.

But no D&D would ever EVER get the numbers WOTC wanted for 4e outside of licensing the IP to other media. D&D by its nature has a ceiling on the book side.

 

[mamba]

But no D&D would ever EVER get the numbers WOTC wanted for 4e outside of licensing the IP to other media. D&D by its nature has a ceiling on the book side.

I do not know what numbers they wanted, but I assume 5e got there

 

[Minigiant]

I do not know what numbers they wanted, but I assume 5e got there

5e reached WOTC's 4e numbers in a different economy. Maybe.

5e didn't reach WOTC's 5e number.

 

[Remathilis]

I can't believe we're still doing you the 1e vs 2e edition war! Ladies, you don't have to fight, you're both ugly!

 

[Remathilis]

2E wasn't as much of a mistake, so much as 1E was: AD&D was all a mistake. Moldvay/Holmes should have been the only D&D product, splitting the game was insane.

I'm not sure Basic would have carried the game for 50 years. You would probably have ended up with a revised Basic (2e) that picks up a bunch of AD&Disms anyway (like separate race and class, many of the additional options, etc). While I agree that Basic is a better ruleset, I don't know if it has the legs to carry the game without AD&D's myriad of options.

 

[Parmandur]

I'm not sure Basic would have carried the game for 50 years. You would probably have ended up with a revised Basic (2e) that picks up a bunch of AD&Disms anyway (like separate race and class, many of the additional options, etc). While I agree that Basic is a better ruleset, I don't know if it has the legs to carry the game without AD&D's myriad of options.

On the contrary, I think it had precisely what was needed to carry the game for more than 50 years: looking at what options are broadly used in 5E, it is still mostly B/X stuff. I'm not saying it couldn't be expanded, it probably would be (as Basic was): but the two boxed set game format without all the core book craft would have fared better without the edition churn.

 

[mamba]

5e reached WOTC's 4e numbers in a different economy. Maybe.

5e didn't reach WOTC's 5e number.

pretty sure it did, the number just is always growing with the success. You will never hear Hasbro say ‘we are very comfortable with the numbers X sells at, we would even still be comfortable with 10% less’, it will always be ‘we want more sales’

 

[Remathilis]

On the contrary, I think it had precisely what was needed to carry the game for more than 50 years: looking at what options are broadly used in 5E, it is still mostly B/X stuff. I'm not saying it couldn't be expanded, it probably would be (as Basic was): but the two boxed set game format without all the core book craft would have fared better without the edition churn.

I think at the very least, you get a Rules Cyclopedia type book with a lot of expansion, but I still think it ends up with a lot of AD&D ideas bolted on.

 

[Scribe]

5e reached WOTC's 4e numbers in a different economy. Maybe.

5e didn't reach WOTC's 5e number.

It absolutely did. There are reports by those who made 5e, that it was expected to be a one and done. That it blew up and ran for almost a decade before the next edition came out, that would be 5.5, is testament to the fact it was absolutely hitting WotC's numbers.

And I say that as very much 'not a fan'.

 

[Minigiant]

pretty sure it did, the number just is always growing with the success. You will never hear Hasbro say ‘we are very comfortable with the numbers X sells at, we would even still be comfortable with 10% less’, it will always be ‘we want more sales’

It absolutely did. There are reports by those who made 5e, that it was expected to be a one and done. That it blew up and ran for almost a decade before the next edition came out, that would be 5.5, is testament to the fact it was absolutely hitting WotC's numbers.

And I say that as very much 'not a fan'.

I meant the later expected number WOTC wanted.

WOTC thought 5e was a dead end and started with a low number.
Then when it actually made money they ballooned the number to 1 Billion dollars.

Sorta like I had a half million expectation from my old boss when hired which ballooned to 5 million in a few years due to greedy eyes.