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Where can we read more about the Frank Miller connection? When that was announced and the dates and how they line up and so forth? Searching for more info on that image, I'm seeing that it was from 1990, and someone stating it was a proposed cover image for a graphic novel from TSR.
TBH, I don't know. I worked on that first Buck Rogers RPG and was on the edge of Miller's orbit at the time so I was well aware of it, but it was certainly announced publicly. Miller was a good friend of Flint; still is. (Miller is one of those people who occasionally hung out at Gary's LA pad.)
 

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Continuing to pour good money after bad is at least ethically questionable, and certainly financially silly.
There's nothing unethical so long as it's your money, and that was Lorraine's money. Lots of businesses launch multiple failed versions of a product before getting it right, or launch multiple failed versions of a product and never get it right at all.
 

There's nothing unethical so long as it's your money, and that was Lorraine's money. Lots of businesses launch multiple failed versions of a product before getting it right, or launch multiple failed versions of a product and never get it right at all.

You're risking the company (yes, your own money), and having to lay off all of your employees because of a personal financial risk you're taking. Not illegal, but I'd call this unethical. I don't think the Buck Rogers investment was at that level to be clear.
 

Yeah, there's a word for funneling the assets of a company you own into your own pockets. It's called a bust-out.
No, that's not what a "bust out" is at all, at least as the term was defined in GOODFELLAS, which is where everybody first heard it.

A "bust out" is using a business you control to borrow as much as you can, and then funneling the borrowed proceeds into your own pocket. That's illegal.

It's quite common to transfer assets from a business you control to yourself, and there's nothing illegal about it, so long as you properly account for the transfer, pay the appropriate taxes, and so forth. A common way to do that is to declare a dividend--since business is going so well, you decide to distribute some of the profits to the shareholders (ie. yourself).
 

TBH, I don't know. I worked on that first Buck Rogers RPG and was on the edge of Miller's orbit at the time so I was well aware of it, but it was certainly announced publicly. Miller was a good friend of Flint; still is. (Miller is one of those people who occasionally hung out at Gary's LA pad.)
That all sounds reasonable. Dille worked in comics, too, right?

When I search for "Frank Miller Buck Rogers 1980s" google is mostly giving me stuff about his attempted 2000s movie, though. Nothing about a project in the 80s, but of course there could certainly be old entertainment industry reports/stories which just aren't showing up.

I have Dille's The Gamesmaster in my TBR pile. I wonder if there's a mention in there.
 

A "bust out" is using a business you control to borrow as much as you can, and then funneling the borrowed proceeds into your own pocket.
As far as I'm concerned, shipping vast amounts of product to Random House on consignment, far beyond the interest of the market, was indistinguishable from that. As far as I'm concerned.
 

I mean, pumping up Buck Roger's was her long time family busienss: she is actually still today working on that, as of very recently.
I thought the stuff all went to auction in the 2000s. It may have not included the IP though.

As for the injection of Buck Rodgers into TSR's product line, it doesn't seem unethical at all to me. Honestly, she was only involved because she was looking for a way to monetize Buck Rodgers. TSR seemed like a good enough vehicle for that. She was able to get the company at a decent price. Her primary reason it seems was to expand the value of the IP she had.

That it didn't work is more of a mix of marketing and market than anything. If she was able to get back out what she had invested, by say, licensing her IP to TSR, that is honestly just good business. It was a private company. She really had no fiduciary responsibility to anyone. I believe after EGG sold his shares back after the takeover, there weren't any outstanding shares, or at least no substantial holders of them. Williams held the Blumes' and TSR purchased Mr. Gygax's directly. If my head math is accurate, that was more than 90% of all the shares that had been distributed. Ernie Gygax had like 50 or something and there may have been a few others that held shares in the double digits.

You could even speculate that she probably didn't really care what happened by 1996 since it was obvious that TSR wasn't going to be able to provide any real return on the Buck Rodgers IP.
 
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As far as I'm concerned, shipping vast amounts of product to Random House on consignment, far beyond the interest of the market, was indistinguishable from that. As far as I'm concerned.
The primary difference, of course, is intent. TSR thought that everything they shipped to Random House would eventually sell and/or TSR would pay for the returns. Neither TSR regime shipped a ton of stuff to Random House, siphoned off the RH monies to themselves, shut down the business, and skipped town with the loot.
 

I thought the stuff all went to auction in the 2000s. It may have not included the IP though.

As for the injection of Buck Rodgers into TSR's product line, it doesn't seem unethical at all to me. Honestly, she was only involved because she was looking for a way to monetize Buck Rodgers. TSR seemed like a good enough vehicle for that. She was able to get the company at a decent price. Her primary reason it seems was to expand the value of the IP she had.

That it didn't work is more of a mix of marketing and market than anything. If she was able to get back out what she had invested, by say, licensing her IP to TSR, that is honestly just good business. It was a private company. She really had no fiduciary responsibility to anyone. I believe after EGG sold his shares back after the takeover, there weren't any outstanding shares, or at least no substantial holders of them. Williams held the Blumes' and TSR purchased Mr. Gygax's directly. If my head math is accurate, that was more than 90% of all the shares that had been distributed. Ernie Gygax had like 50 or something and there may have been a few others that held shares in the double digits.

You could even speculate that she probably didn't really care what happened by 1996 since it was obvious that TSR wasn't going to be able to provide any real return on the Buck Rodgers IP.

I did go over the Buck Rogers thing before. See Part C.

But arguing Buck Williams is a fool's errand. It was neither unlawful nor unethical. Lorraine was not just focused on Buck Rogers- she was trying to diversify TSR in numerous ways. And it's not like this isn't the only property they licensed under Lorraine; they licensed everything from Red October and Perry Mason (??) to Bullwinkle and Rocky. And we all know that she was open to licensing other properties under the right terms (the deal to license Tolkien fell through because she wanted some publication rights for the fiction side).

Notice that no one produces any receipts or evidence that there were any terms about the license that weren't fair market value. Instead, we are led to believe that it was just per se bad- which anyone who has an iota of business experience knows is incorrect. Moreover, ithad nothing to do with the financial failure of TSR. It's just more of the usual, "I don't actually know any of the facts, but I'll throw more wood on the fire because it sounds bad, I think?"

You want to summarize Lorraine's stewardship of TSR? Here's my opinion based on what I've learned-

1. She saved TSR from ruin in 1985. Without her, we would have missed out on a lot of the products that people today love.
2. She was more professional and ethical than the prior Gygax/Blume management. Basic things like "honoring contracts," and "paying royalties," and "not screwing over employees what they were due and promised,"* became a thing. Also she didn't stock TSR with all of her relatives who were incompetent and/or did not work.
3. Her basic level of competence kept TSR going during a time when a lot of gamin companies were going under.
4. She failed to correct or realize that there were some structural problems going on- you know, stuff like "Are we making more selling this product than it costs to produce it?"
5. She was unable to make decisions that saved TSR from the combination of the rise of the card games (M:TG etc.) as well as the structural problems in the RPG industry.

*Regular screwing over of employees is always a thing. But at least the company did it like other companies do, and no longer went out of its way to get people to work by offering them stuff and then saying, "Oops, we totes had our fingers crossed, and also contracts only apply when we want them to."

In other words, she was perfectly cromulent. Certainly no better than that. Look at the history of gaming companies- they go bust all the time. We may all be patting ourselves on the back right now about D&D, but we should remember that D&D as a brand was close to being shut down completely when 5e came out. Would a great CEO have done better? Yes, of course! Can we all see the mistakes she made with 20/20 hindsight? Certainly. But it would have taken a great CEO.

Other than a very few TTRPG publishers, how many survived from the early 80s? And survived not just the first gaming crash, but also the '90s card game onslaught?

Mayfair Games?
Bard Games?
Games Designer Workshop?
Avalon Hill?
Flying Buffalo?

How about FGU? No?

Companies that you might have think "made it" also didn't ... not really. West End Games went bankrupt at the same time ('98). Chaosium was destroyed by the failure of their card game and had to split the assets into new subsidiaries. And so on.

That's the final point- not that Lorraine Williams was great. Simply that she wasn't a villain. Treat her the same as we do all the male CEOs of other companies that also didn't make it. Seems fair, doesn't it?
 

I did go over the Buck Rogers thing before. See Part C.

At some point, a few posts back, I also pointed out that Buck Rogers products had also stopped being developed several years before TSR faced its ultimate demise.

It seems like it’s not really that important in the end. As you pointed out, there was far more than Buck Rogers being produced that wasn’t moving.
 

Into the Woods

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