Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
Dropping a boulder off a cliff onto an enemy camp while they sleep is technically combat, but one with probably just one big roll.
Shadowdark Shadowdark General Thread [+]
- Thread starter overgeeked
- Start date
I see what you did there.
Retros_x
Hero
I was that other person in the other thread. I don't want to argue for argues sake, but when people actively misdescribe the game I like and tell its bad design, I can get heated, I'll admit that.
In the other thread it was claimed that a) combat is rigged against you from a math perspective b) the official adventures are hack n slay, but because the combat is too hard, its bad design. These were the main points why I focused too much on the avoiding combat part, as a contra point to these. Of course combat is fun and important in Shadowdark too. But its not a game like Diablo as it was compared too and I stand by the opinion that 5e is more similar to Diablo than Shadowdark, because running in a room and fight the monsters is the default approach for the majority of official 5e adventures, if not explicitly stated otherwise.
I think the best contrapoint or extension to my points were that combat is a failstate - but a desired one. If that makes sense. It doesn't mean you fail the game, but you failed other approaches. To come back to your spy/crack commando comparison I quoted above, which I think is a really good one: An elite commando squad will also try to avoid a fire fight, but they are equipped and trained to fight in one with the best means they can. In a movie about an elite commando squad we WANT to fail them at an attempt to arrest someone without a firefight, because we want the drama and action. I think this encapsulates at least how I play OSR/Shadowrun - we want to avoid a combat or at least run it to our terms, because it is deadly and dangerous, but it will happen and it will be fun.
In the other thread it was claimed that a) combat is rigged against you from a math perspective b) the official adventures are hack n slay, but because the combat is too hard, its bad design. These were the main points why I focused too much on the avoiding combat part, as a contra point to these. Of course combat is fun and important in Shadowdark too. But its not a game like Diablo as it was compared too and I stand by the opinion that 5e is more similar to Diablo than Shadowdark, because running in a room and fight the monsters is the default approach for the majority of official 5e adventures, if not explicitly stated otherwise.
I think the best contrapoint or extension to my points were that combat is a failstate - but a desired one. If that makes sense. It doesn't mean you fail the game, but you failed other approaches. To come back to your spy/crack commando comparison I quoted above, which I think is a really good one: An elite commando squad will also try to avoid a fire fight, but they are equipped and trained to fight in one with the best means they can. In a movie about an elite commando squad we WANT to fail them at an attempt to arrest someone without a firefight, because we want the drama and action. I think this encapsulates at least how I play OSR/Shadowrun - we want to avoid a combat or at least run it to our terms, because it is deadly and dangerous, but it will happen and it will be fun.
Last edited:
I set it up last night but haven’t messed with fixing anything imported yet.
Have you ever used the PDF importer for the official adventures? I am on v13 so it doesn’t work anymore but I could downgrade to v11 on Forge to get it working before upgrading again if it’s worth the hassle.
Bill Zebub
“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
I can't even seen the thread anymore. And Shadowdark wasn't even the topic anymore; it was just an argument about whether or not OSR is fun, with people who have decided they hate OSR. It's like arguing about whether butter pecan ice cream is good, with somebody who hates all ice cream because they are confusing it with sour cream, which they've never tried. But it sounds bad.
(For the record, butter pecan is the BEST flavor of ice cream.)
Xenolith234
Adventurer
Very true. And OP there doesn’t seem to enjoy many games, so I cannot be surprised or engage with another thread about a game they don’t enjoy.
Bill Zebub
“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
I don't even understand what the point was to starting the thread.
Mannahnin
Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
Talking about our gaming experiences gives us the opportunity to sanity check, compare impressions with and get feedback from other gamers. That poster apparently has a lot of negative experiences, so that's a lot of fodder for him to try to problem-solve and compare notes with others. Especially when he is obviously seeing that a lot of people are having a ton of fun with a given game. Let's remember too that negative experiences often naturally prompt venting and a desire for feedback, where good gaming experiences are kind of the default and there's often less to talk about with them, so there's a certain tendency for the bad to be more visible and create a negatively-tinted overall picture.
Spiral159
Explorer
I've been listening to the mastering dungeons podcast and they mentioned that in the old school days (specifically around Village of Homlet time) people wouldn't just have one character, but two characters. Has anyone tried this for the lower level side of Shadowdark? I think if I remember right it's mentioned doing this in Gauntlets, but I'm thinking of into the early levels.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
Yep. In some games, people brought multiple characters. Now we've switched to a troupe-style play, so that people can rotate in whatever class is needed or have someone ride over the hill if their current character dies. (No one has died in the current sandbox campaign with experienced Shadowdark players, though.)
