Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
Dropping a boulder off a cliff onto an enemy camp while they sleep is technically combat, but one with probably just one big roll.
Shadowdark Shadowdark General Thread [+]
- Thread starter overgeeked
- Start date
I see what you did there.
Retros_x
Hero
I was that other person in the other thread. I don't want to argue for argues sake, but when people actively misdescribe the game I like and tell its bad design, I can get heated, I'll admit that.
In the other thread it was claimed that a) combat is rigged against you from a math perspective b) the official adventures are hack n slay, but because the combat is too hard, its bad design. These were the main points why I focused too much on the avoiding combat part, as a contra point to these. Of course combat is fun and important in Shadowdark too. But its not a game like Diablo as it was compared too and I stand by the opinion that 5e is more similar to Diablo than Shadowdark, because running in a room and fight the monsters is the default approach for the majority of official 5e adventures, if not explicitly stated otherwise.
I think the best contrapoint or extension to my points were that combat is a failstate - but a desired one. If that makes sense. It doesn't mean you fail the game, but you failed other approaches. To come back to your spy/crack commando comparison I quoted above, which I think is a really good one: An elite commando squad will also try to avoid a fire fight, but they are equipped and trained to fight in one with the best means they can. In a movie about an elite commando squad we WANT to fail them at an attempt to arrest someone without a firefight, because we want the drama and action. I think this encapsulates at least how I play OSR/Shadowrun - we want to avoid a combat or at least run it to our terms, because it is deadly and dangerous, but it will happen and it will be fun.
In the other thread it was claimed that a) combat is rigged against you from a math perspective b) the official adventures are hack n slay, but because the combat is too hard, its bad design. These were the main points why I focused too much on the avoiding combat part, as a contra point to these. Of course combat is fun and important in Shadowdark too. But its not a game like Diablo as it was compared too and I stand by the opinion that 5e is more similar to Diablo than Shadowdark, because running in a room and fight the monsters is the default approach for the majority of official 5e adventures, if not explicitly stated otherwise.
I think the best contrapoint or extension to my points were that combat is a failstate - but a desired one. If that makes sense. It doesn't mean you fail the game, but you failed other approaches. To come back to your spy/crack commando comparison I quoted above, which I think is a really good one: An elite commando squad will also try to avoid a fire fight, but they are equipped and trained to fight in one with the best means they can. In a movie about an elite commando squad we WANT to fail them at an attempt to arrest someone without a firefight, because we want the drama and action. I think this encapsulates at least how I play OSR/Shadowrun - we want to avoid a combat or at least run it to our terms, because it is deadly and dangerous, but it will happen and it will be fun.
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