D&D General D&D weapons vs reality

[Zardnaar]

Absolutely. My point is that bows were better at penetration than crossbows. Armor was effective for many reasons, but no armor in history reliably stopped a direct good hit from a contemporary ranged weapon. If they did, armor would have been even more widespread and/or those weapons would have fallen out of use, obviously.

The armor could stop an arrow but it assumes the right angle. Much like tank armor it was sloped and curved. Angle changes slighlt or the armor hits 45 degrees into the side where its 1mm thick vs 3mm and you're in trouble. Modern comparison was the IS-3 tank pike nose. Front on very thick, angle changes its thinner. Height difference (attacker is up higher eg a hill) and you are in big trouble.

Most armies didn't have powerful bows though. English longbow is famous for a reason. In antiquity the bows were comparatively weak. Hence why heavy infantry dominated in Europe for 1000 odd years.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Another reason was resources. High quality bow requires specific wood and you're going to denude your local forests assuming you even have the required wood.

Yeah and crossbows and muskets didn’t take nearly as specific or high quality materials, especially as metallurgy got better and better.

Or you lacked the knowledge and resources steppe nomads had for composite bows.

I mean hardly just them. There are examples of similarly ranged bows that are usuable on horseback or are simply smaller all over the world.

For mid-range, hunting, and “normal” war bows, Europe did fine, though.

The armor could stop an arrow but it assumes the right angle. Much like tank armor it was sloped and curved. Angle changes slighlt or the armor hits 45 degrees into the side where it’s 1mm thick vs 3mm and you're in trouble. Modern comparison was the IS-3 tank pike nose. Front on very thick, angle changes its thinner. Height difference (attacker is up higher eg a hill) and you are in big trouble.

Absolutely. Thats the thing. A breastplate is worth it because you aren’t just standing there letting archers pick the perfect shot, and so most hits aren’t dead on against your weakest points, but most of the design of heavy armor is taking melee into account much more than ranged enemies. Your best defense against a cadre of skilled archers is tactics.

Most armies didn't have powerful bows though. English longbow is famous for a reason. In antiquity the bows were comparatively weak. Hence why heavy infantry dominated in Europe for 1000 odd years.

Kinda. Europeans had good strong war bows all the way back to Ancient Greece, but the “longbow” is the first time they reached quite the same strength as other regions’ heaviest bows.
A minor distinction maybe, but IMO an important one.

 

[Cadence]

I mean hardly just them. There are examples of similarly ranged bows that are usuable on horseback or are simply smaller all over the world.

Found this interesting about outside of Europe The Interesting Reason Why Bows Were Replaced With Guns

 

[Piperken]

Some of these posts remind me of the people who claim that a modern tank is easy to take out because "All you have to do is throw a grenade down the tank's barrel." High quality armor was extremely expensive, if it didn't work it wouldn't have been used.

Tank meets drone.
(Yes, high quality armor is expensive, yes, it does work.)

 

[Zardnaar]

Tank meets drone.
(Yes, high quality armor is expensive, yes, it does work.)

Mostvif them aren't down the hatch. Some are.

Often its an old RPG-7 head or whatever aimed at thin top armor.

 

[Horwath]

Mostvif them aren't down the hatch. Some are.

Often its an old RPG-7 head or whatever aimed at thin top armor.

or just aim at the tracks.
The mobility kill.

 

[Horwath]

Yeah, in a more realistic game Dex should affect all weapons, and Str should be used a minimum score for certain weapons.

But Dex is already so powerful I'd rather mess with the ability score vs skill system than give it more power directly.

well, if there is min STR for best weapons really high, then there is no problem with dex being option for all melee attacks as for ranged as normal.

IE: Bows:

d4, STR 4
d6, STR 8
d8, STR 10
d10, STR 14
d12, STR 18
2d6, STR 20
(if you want, you can make that Small characters count their STR 4 pts lower for weapon usage)

same table can be for 1Handed melee weapons also.

 

[Zardnaar]

or just aim at the tracks.
The mobility kill.

Na just wait for it to break down. Soviet King Tiger.

 

[Piperken]

Two things to briefly add, focused more through a design lens:

"...balance isn’t about making things equal, it’s about preserving interesting choices." -- Chris McDowall (2023)

Another way of handling combat manuevers.

 

[Composer99]

One bolt under the arm in the knee joint etc and without support the knight was done.

"I used to be a medieval knight, like you; then I took an arrow to the knee."