D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[Maxperson]

OR, hear me out:

3) they thought that having to spend your action and reaction and your concentration, and still have a chance that the trigger never comes up or you lose concentration, was sufficient additional drawbacks and costs that casting a spell this way was reasonable and didn’t need to be prevented.

A normal fighter also spends his action and reaction, and for a single weapon attack that can miss. The only difference between that fighter and the one using the magic action to fireball or wall of fire someone is concentration. I don't think taking up concentration for 1 round is anywhere near a big enough sacrifice to account for the difference between a single weapon attack that can miss and a spell that can deal a lot of damage and/or control the battlefield.

Plus, as was mentioned, it's super easy to pick a trigger that is going to happen. Readied actions are rarely wasted.

 

[Maxperson]

on its own, probably not, but when you add the Hiding / Invisible rules...

And a ton of other rules.

 

[Maxperson]

If you don’t maintain concentration until the specified trigger, the resources spent to cast the spell are lost. This is explicitly stated in the rules for the Ready Action.

Why not instead of not concentrating, just release it on your turn? If you can release it later, you can release it then. Someone can take the Ready Action to cast the spell, release it immediately, and completely circumvent the Magic Action limitation. Or pick, "See an enemy" as the trigger and since you are seeing the enemies before you readied the action, it goes off as soon as your turn ends. No concentration is used.

 

[Charlaquin]

Why not instead of not concentrating, just release it on your turn?

Because that’s how the Ready Action works. You have to take the Reaction in response to the specified trigger, not before.

If you can release it later, you can release it then.

Absolutely not. The Ready Action rules specify that you must take the reaction in response to the specified trigger. If the specified trigger doesn’t happen, the Action is wasted.

Someone can take the Ready Action to cast the spell, release it immediately, and completely circumvent the Magic Action limitation.

No, they cannot.

Or pick, "See an enemy" as the trigger and since you are seeing the enemies before you readied the action, it goes off as soon as your turn ends. No concentration is used.

You already see the enemy, that’s not a trigger you can respond to.

 

[Maxperson]

Because that’s how the Ready Action works. You have to take the Reaction in response to the specified trigger, not before.

I just stated one. When I see an enemy. That is a perceivable circumstance, so the spell goes off instantly when my turn is "over" and has the same exact effect as if I had cast it on my turn with the Magic Action. No risk of spell loss. No concentration being used.

Absolutely not. The Ready Action rules specify that you must take the reaction in response to the specified trigger. If the specified trigger doesn’t happen, the Action is wasted.

I can pick a trigger that will occur 100% of the time with 100% of my readied actions.

No, they cannot.

I just did it with my first example above. None of the negatives of readying an action, and it has the same exact effect as if I had cast it on my turn.

You already see the enemy, that’s not a trigger you can respond to.

You're making stuff up now. There is no requirement that the circumstance not be present already. The only requirement is that it be a perceivable circumstance. What I am describing works perfectly under RAW.

Or... I blink. For an instant I don't see him. When my eyes open, I see him anew!!

 

[Charlaquin]

I just stated one. When I see an enemy. That is a perceivable circumstance, so the spell goes off instantly when my turn is "over" and has the same exact effect as if I had cast it on my turn with the Magic Action. No risk of spell loss. No concentration being used.

I can pick a trigger that will occur 100% of the time with 100% of my readied actions.

I just did it with my first example above. None of the negatives of readying an action, and it has the same exact effect as if I had cast it on my turn.

You're making stuff up now. There is no requirement that the circumstance not be present already. The only requirement is that it be a perceivable circumstance. What I am describing works perfectly under RAW.

Or... I blink. For an instant I don't see him. When my eyes open, I see him anew!!

See, now we are actually, genuinely, running into the case that the DMG quote everyone busts out when someone else reads the rules in a way they disagree with was actually written to cover. This is what a bad-faith reading of the rules in an attempt to break them looks like.

 

[Maxperson]

See, now we are actually, genuinely, running into the case that the DMG quote everyone busts out when someone else reads the rules in a way they disagree with was actually written to cover. This is what a bad-faith reading of the rules in an attempt to break them looks like.

I disagree. My suggestion is no different than trying to work around the Magic Action RAI. I get that you don't think that's the intent, but they tried really, really hard to keep fighters from casting two spells in a round.

Also, even if you view what I just suggested as bad faith, a lot of tables won't view it that way and or like to play that way, so it's not even universally bad faith. I personally view both work arounds as bad faith, but again, we have different opinions there.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I just stated one. When I see an enemy. That is a perceivable circumstance, so the spell goes off instantly when my turn is "over" and has the same exact effect as if I had cast it on my turn with the Magic Action. No risk of spell loss. No concentration being used.

I can pick a trigger that will occur 100% of the time with 100% of my readied actions.

I just did it with my first example above. None of the negatives of readying an action, and it has the same exact effect as if I had cast it on my turn.

You're making stuff up now. There is no requirement that the circumstance not be present already. The only requirement is that it be a perceivable circumstance. What I am describing works perfectly under RAW.

Or... I blink. For an instant I don't see him. When my eyes open, I see him anew!!

Yeah
Readied action used that way is certainly not intended, but possible RAW.
As said before: the table needs to have an agreement how readied actions are used. Even the DMG calls out readied actions as possibly breaking physics.

It specifically says: "readied action are for heroic deeds" or something like that.

I don't perceive circumventing restrictions as heroic deeds.

 

[Charlaquin]

I disagree. My suggestion is no different than trying to work around the Magic Action RAI. I get that you don't think that's the intent, but they tried really, really hard to keep fighters from casting two spells in a round.

Also, even if you view what I just suggested as bad faith, a lot of tables won't view it that way and or like to play that way, so it's not even universally bad faith. I personally view both work arounds as bad faith, but again, we have different opinions there.

You’re arguing a position you don’t actually believe for the purpose of making it look absurd. That’s the definition of bad faith.

 

[ECMO3]

And that is what 100% loses me.

The text is "You cast the spell as normal," on your turn. Not you prepare to cast the spell or you ready to cast the spell. It says you actually cast the spell. You then hold the spell (using your concentration) and RELEASE (not cast) it with your reaction.

I do agree you cast the spell as normal on your turn, I do not agree that means you use the Magic action.

It does not say you use the magic action to do it and using the Magic action to cast it on your turn would require you to take 2 actions on your turn.

IMO it is a stretch to think that "normal"="Magic action" particularly given the specific way the terms "casting time" and "Magic action" are used throughout the PHB and DMG and how "ready a spell" is used in the glossary entry on the ready action.