D&D 5E (2024) How can I do a Charisma-Investigation (or a Strength/Dexterity-Investigation if I can't use Charisma) to find a secret door?

[Micah Sweet]

Oh I would never be on board with someone else playing my player character. Not to mention my characters are generally extremely complex and playing them is difficult if you don't understand how they are put together.

We ran into a magic mirror that created an evil duplicate that attacked the party. The DM looked at my character sheet and said "why did this have to be [me] that looked into the mirror".

The Rogue does not stare vacantly at the wall. He is just flat not there when his player is not there. And in a world with extensive magic it is easily explainable and not even close to the biggest thing that makes no sense in the fiction.

Can you provide an example of an explanation that is appropriate to the setting and doesn't create a host of other complications?

 

[Steampunkette]

Investigation to find a secret door with Charisma?

Strike a pose and see which way your hair and/or cape are blowing.

 

[Maxperson]

The Rogue does not stare vacantly at the wall. He is just flat not there when his player is not there. And in a world with extensive magic it is easily explainable and not even close to the biggest thing that makes no sense in the fiction.

That would drive me crazy enough that I wouldn't play in a game like that. I'm not saying that to speak against what you guys do. Clearly it works for you guys, but I need the game to make more sense to me than that.

Anyway, you guys dumped your way into having trouble with investigation checks. That's a choice you guys made and when the rogue isn't there, it's going to be rough for you along those lines.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

Can you provide an example of an explanation that is appropriate to the setting and doesn't create a host of other complications?

You know how sometimes in TV shows there are characters who are there but they just didn't do anything important enough to be shown on the screen? That's the Rogue. They are right there but for whatever reason just not doing anything noteworthy in this particular episode

That would drive me crazy enough that I wouldn't play in a game like that. I'm not saying that to speak against what you guys do. Clearly it works for you guys, but I need the game to make more sense to me than that.

Do you cancel the session every time a single player is missing? Or other people control the missing players' characters? Those both sound completely unacceptable to me - first one because literally every single session would be canceled if you couldn't play any time someone missed, and second one because I don't want my character controlled by others when I'm not there.

 

[Voadam]

The only way I could see a Charisma-Investigation would be if what you are investigating has some sort of sentience you can influence. Maybe you're investigating the door of an illithid vessel or something, so the door possesses at least some sentience in a way...

Closest I can see is charisma aiding another, telling them they got this and encouraging them so they get advantage. If everyone has an eight it doesn’t help mechanically but if anyone is better it mechanically in essence gives you their roll bonus.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

Closest I can see is charisma aiding another, telling them they got this and encouraging them so they get advantage. If everyone has an eight it doesn’t help mechanically but if anyone is better it mechanically in essence gives you their roll bonus.

Pretty sure most DMs would allow that with just the Help action and no Charisma required. Helping someone else investigate an empty room sounds totally reasonable as something that succeeds automatically

 

[Micah Sweet]

You know how sometimes in TV shows there are characters who are there but they just didn't do anything important enough to be shown on the screen? That's the Rogue. They are right there but for whatever reason just not doing anything noteworthy in this particular episode

If they were there and their skills were needed, why didn't they step up? No points if the answer is, "their player wasn't there".

 

[DrJawaPhD]

If they were there and their skills were needed, why didn't they step up? No points if the answer is, "their player wasn't there".

Maybe they did investigate the room but just never found anything noteworthy, so the camera never bothered to point at them, which forced others to take the spotlight.

It's not like having a slightly higher Int than the rest of the party somehow makes them 100% successful

 

[pukunui]

I don't think Charisma makes sense for Investigation.

Charisma makes tons of sense for Investigation in a social context. I tend to go with Charisma (Investigation) as a substitute for the old Gather Information skill. But Charisma (Investigation) for finding secret doors? Yeah, nah. I got nothing.

Ok we are in a Dungeon full of secret doors that you need an Investigation check to find. The whole party dumped Intelligence. We do have a Rogue that has expertise in Investigation, so he is pretty good at it, but he is out for 2 weeks. The rest of us have a -1.

The DM lets us use other abilities if we can explain how we do it. My Warlock 4/Fighter 1 has a +2 Strength, +2 Dex and +4 Charisma. The problem is I can't think of a creative way to use those abilities looking for secret doors.

EDIT: So I put it to ChatGPT. Here are some of its better suggestions:

Charisma-based Investigation Justifications​

1. Talking the Dungeon Into Giving Up Its Secrets

• You "interrogate" the stonework, muttering threats, flattery, or warlocky banter at the walls.
• Mechanically, you’re using force of personality to stay persuasive and commanding even while searching.
• “C’mon, you smug block of granite. I know you’ve got hinges somewhere. Show me your tricks!”

2. Inspiring Cooperation

• You hype up your less perceptive buddies with a little motivational speech.
• Mechanically: you’re using Charisma to organize the group’s clumsy search efforts more effectively. You don’t see the crack yourself, but you get others looking in the right way.

3. Warlock-y “Attune to the Vibe”

• Lean on your pact fluff. You don’t spot doors by raw logic—you “feel” where the dungeon is hiding something, projecting confidence into the search.
• Could be flavored as your patron subtly nudging you toward the right stones, but your Charisma is what makes you receptive enough to catch those whispers.

4. The Con Artist Approach

• You treat the dungeon like a mark. Secret doors are “lying” to you, pretending to be walls. You’re trained in spotting when people are bluffing, so you extend that instinct to architecture.
• Charisma fuels your knack for detecting when something isn’t quite selling its act.

How I’d Pitch It to the DM​

Something like:

“I don’t investigate like a bookworm, I investigate like a warlock. The dungeon is trying to deceive me, and I know how to spot lies. I want to roll Charisma with Investigation to see through the dungeon’s bluff.”

That way, you’re not just saying “I want my +4 instead of -1,” you’re tying it into character and table fun.

 

[Maxperson]

You know how sometimes in TV shows there are characters who are there but they just didn't do anything important enough to be shown on the screen? That's the Rogue. They are right there but for whatever reason just not doing anything noteworthy in this particular episode

Nope. It's nonsensical for the rogue to sit back and let his friends die to traps and miss secret doors just because the player isn't there. When the group is together, all are on screen at all times.

Do you cancel the session every time a single player is missing? Or other people control the missing players' characters? Those both sound completely unacceptable to me - first one because literally every single session would be canceled if you couldn't play any time someone missed, and second one because I don't want my character controlled by others when I'm not there.

That's fine. You wouldn't be in my game then, because people aren't there have their characters played by another player at the table. Different strokes for different folks.

I wouldn't play in a game where PCs effectively started acting evil, standing around letting their friends suffer and/or die just because their controller isn't present. Or just nonsensically vanished every time a player wasn't there.