D&D General Weave Your Tale in the Forgotten Realms With 8 Epic Subclasses (D&D Beyond Article)

[Maxperson]

Hang on, I just remembered that there are Elemental Gods in the Realms: Kossuth, Grumbar, Ishtishia, and Akadi.

Also, in Zakhara, it is believed the Zakharan pantheon created genies.

Sure, but it's not Oath of the Elements, which would make sense with elemental gods and princes roaming the multiverse. Oaths are supposed to be about ideals and gods. Ancients, Retribution, Valor, etc. An oath to genies makes seems like it undershoots by quite a bit. Why not an Oath of Mind Flayers or an Oath of Beholders?

 

[GarrettKP]

Sure, but it's not Oath of the Elements, which would make sense with elemental gods and princes roaming the multiverse. Oaths are supposed to be about ideals and gods. Ancients, Retribution, Valor, etc. An oath to genies makes seems like it undershoots by quite a bit. Why not an Oath of Mind Flayers or an Oath of Beholders?

It isn’t just “Oath of Genie,” it’s “Oath of the Noble Genie.” Noble Genies are reality shapers, the equivalent of an Archdevil or Demon Lord for the Elemental Planes.

Yes, they aren’t deities exactly. But they are close in power to a minor god, so it isn’t that far fetched that they could grant powers to Paladins in the same way Auril can.

In fact, Nafas from Quests from the Infinite Staircase is a CR 23 while Auril is a CR 11 in 5e. They are absolutely on the level of some gods.

 

[Gorck]

It's being put out for a specific setting, so picking those specific gods makes sense. As you say, all you need to do is swap out the gods and it works just fine. Or you just axe those two gods and have it be Scion of Bane. The article didn't show the specific ability mechanics, but the way they were described I don't really see a need to keep three gods.

True, but the UA did have the Purple Dragon Knight and according to the article, they seem to have changed it to the Banneret (which is more setting-agnostic). So I don’t see why they couldn’t do the same with the Scion of the Three. And if the final version is similar enough to the UA, one of the level 3 features gives you a daily choice of bonuses based on the three specific gods.

 

[James Gasik]

Sure, but it's not Oath of the Elements, which would make sense with elemental gods and princes roaming the multiverse. Oaths are supposed to be about ideals and gods. Ancients, Retribution, Valor, etc. An oath to genies makes seems like it undershoots by quite a bit. Why not an Oath of Mind Flayers or an Oath of Beholders?

It probably makes more sense in regions of the Realms where Genies have had more influence, like Calimshan. Or maybe it's proponents are Genasi- Earth Genasi in particular, are known to have a special Paladin order.

There does need to be a little more lore here, but I don't think it's a completely alien concept for either Paladins or the Realms in particular. But I know some Forgotten Realms fans aren't particularly fond of new lore being added to the setting. A lot of people think that a setting should have a start point, and then be left largely alone, so that everyone's own version of the Realms only diverges from there, for the most part.

Eberron, for example, was created with that idea in mind. But while some settings are largely left alone, with the Realms, TSR and later WotC/Hasbro have insisted on having an expanding metaplot, which creates more points of divergence.

Me personally, I don't mind new lore. I just hate when old lore is forgotten entirely. And more particularly with the Realms, when the focus is myopic, as it has been for a long time now.

If want to know what's happening in the Sea of Fallen Stars, for example, it's been largely radio silence. And that's a shame.

 

[Maxperson]

True, but the UA did have the Purple Dragon Knight and according to the article, they seem to have changed it to the Banneret (which is more setting-agnostic). So I don’t see why they couldn’t do the same with the Scion of the Three. And if the final version is similar enough to the UA, one of the level 3 features gives you a daily choice of bonuses based on the three specific gods.

I think that change had more to do with the subclass having actual purple dragons in it, which the Purple Dragon Knights didn't have. They had to make a change and they moved to Banneret rather than make a knight that was fairly generic and call if a Purple Dragon Knight.

 

[Maxperson]

It isn’t just “Oath of Genie,” it’s “Oath of the Noble Genie.” Noble Genies are reality shapers, the equivalent of an Archdevil or Demon Lord for the Elemental Planes.

Yes, they aren’t deities exactly. But they are close in power to a minor god, so it isn’t that far fetched that they could grant powers to Paladins in the same way Auril can.

In fact, Nafas from Quests from the Infinite Staircase is a CR 23 while Auril is a CR 11 in 5e. They are absolutely on the level of some gods.

Unless they really upped the power level of Noble Genies, they weren't even close to being minor gods. They had some more hit dice and the ability to grant wishes, but that was about it.

 

[Maxperson]

It probably makes more sense in regions of the Realms where Genies have had more influence, like Calimshan. Or maybe it's proponents are Genasi- Earth Genasi in particular, are known to have a special Paladin order.

There does need to be a little more lore here, but I don't think it's a completely alien concept for either Paladins or the Realms in particular. But I know some Forgotten Realms fans aren't particularly fond of new lore being added to the setting. A lot of people think that a setting should have a start point, and then be left largely alone, so that everyone's own version of the Realms only diverges from there, for the most part.

Eberron, for example, was created with that idea in mind. But while some settings are largely left alone, with the Realms, TSR and later WotC/Hasbro have insisted on having an expanding metaplot, which creates more points of divergence.

Me personally, I don't mind new lore. I just hate when old lore is forgotten entirely. And more particularly with the Realms, when the focus is myopic, as it has been for a long time now.

If want to know what's happening in the Sea of Fallen Stars, for example, it's been largely radio silence. And that's a shame.

Even in Calimshan I think it would be odd. I could see it in Zakhara were genies are practically worshipped and are a part of every day life and belief. There an oath to genies could rise to the level of being an ideal, but outside of someplace were genies are that integrated into society, I just don't see it.

 

[James Gasik]

Unless they really upped the power level of Noble Genies, they weren't even close to being minor gods. They had some more hit dice and the ability to grant wishes, but that was about it.

That's why I brought up the Wind Dukes, who created the Rod of Seven Parts (Rod of Law) and whom some consider "angels of Bahamut".

 

[Misanthrope Prime]

It's being put out for a specific setting, so picking those specific gods makes sense. As you say, all you need to do is swap out the gods and it works just fine. Or you just axe those two gods and have it be Scion of Bane. The article didn't show the specific ability mechanics, but the way they were described I don't really see a need to keep three gods.

By contrast, the purple dragon knight appeared in the Forgotten Realms setting book back in 2015 as a subclass, but they provided the name banneret as an alternative name for alternative settings. Now they've chosen that to be the name for the subclass by default.

At the very least, they could at least bundle it with a suggested setting neutral name.

 

[Misanthrope Prime]

Even in Calimshan I think it would be odd. I could see it in Zakhara were genies are practically worshipped and are a part of every day life and belief. There an oath to genies could rise to the level of being an ideal, but outside of someplace were genies are that integrated into society, I just don't see it.

The updated lore for Calimshan has genies as warlords ruling the deserts. Think of these paladins kind of like dragon sorcerors' templars