What Does "Simulation" Mean To You? [+]

[Marc17]

I'm going to say Immersion as I'm more partial to (my interpretation of) GDS.

 

[Pedantic]

My understanding is a bit of both. They are simulating a galaxy for folks to explore, and also want interesting gameplay.

NMS definitely suffered for years from having a procedural generation system that created a lot of stuff with nothing to do, though I hear they've done a lot since then through extensive updates.

 

[Celebrim]

I'm not familiar with the game. Is the point of the generator to make realistic planets, using data from observations, or is it to make a variety of worlds that will lead to interesting gameplay?

Well, the point is definitely not to make realistic planets. My understanding is the planets are really only a few dozens of kilometers in diameter, but this is big enough and people's sense of scale limited enough (as to what they can imagine) that the planets will generally feel planet sized to the average user. So it's definitely a simulation in that they want people to be immersed in the illusion of realism, but there is no real commitment to realism per se.

 

[soviet]

"Evoke setting through its own procedures" is a great phrase.

Thanks. Buy my books! ;-)

 

[Aldarc]

I would go along with this. Part of the joy of Rolemaster is the sense of 'you input the factors of the situation, and it outputs 'what would happen'. It evokes setting through its own procedures.

"Evoke setting through its own procedures" is a great phrase.

I feel like it's also a great way to describe Germany (though Austria* was worse): "Evoke culture through its own bureaucracy."

* It is one thing to read Kafka, but it's another to experience Kafka through Austrian bureaucracy.

 

[AlexofBarbaria]

I think this is wrong because the motivation (as far as we know) for Gygax was to model something, not create a useful or fun gameplay element.

The weapon vs. armor table descends from a similar table in the Chainmail wargame.

The funny thing is the simulation got totally mangled along the way as it was translated to the d20 vs. AC alternate combat system.

The numbers were originally the target number to kill an opponent wearing that armor with this weapon. But they were turned into modifiers to the attack vs. AC roll in Greyhawk/1e.

So the mostly flat row of 0s for the Mace originally meant that weapon was equally lethal against any armor (bit overkill for realism IMO). A very different simulation story from what it becomes in Greyhawk/1e -- no modifiers to the default sequence of to-hit probabilities vs. AC.

To me the fact that Gygax didn't care about this indicates that simulation was not his main concern. I think he noticed what I noticed using this table in 1e, which is that it makes weapon selection more interesting for the players.

If he wanted the original simulation from Chainmail and made an honest math mistake here, but never noticed the difference in play, it at least supports my second point that sim rules that play with probabilities are way less impactful than sim rules that introduce new events into the fiction.

 

[pemerton]

Or perhaps we could go back to the start of this lineof conversation, and note that "avoiding narrative contrivance" a thing that TB routinely requires as a function of those systems, is the point, to save you the need to cope.

I'm having trouble parsing your sentence.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Well, the point is definitely not to make realistic planets. My understanding is the planets are really only a few dozens of kilometers in diameter, but this is big enough and people's sense of scale limited enough (as to what they can imagine) that the planets will generally feel planet sized to the average user. So it's definitely a simulation in that they want people to be immersed in the illusion of realism, but there is no real commitment to realism per se.

If you want a real simulation of planet creation; look no further then Architect of Worlds!

Architect of Worlds: Comprehensive Rules for Worldbuilding — Ad Astra Games

THE GALAXY IS YOURS WITH ARCHITECT OF WORLDS . We live in a golden age in astronomy. Fifty years ago, our understanding of our own planetary system was just being upended by NASA missions. We could only guess at worlds circling other stars. Now we know of thousands of exoplanets, with hundreds mo

www.adastragames.com

 

[Joerg Baumgartner]

Simulation seems to be something attempting to copy the real world. A flight simulator or golf simulator attempts to copy the real world flying or playing of golf. People know it is not the actual thing and can play along for what it is or try to break it by crashing the plane knowing nothing real is going to happen.

Playing in a role-playing game also bring in verisimilitude or playing along with things not real. People should know playing the game and swinging a sword to kill an orc is not real. Simulation says that a real sword does more damage than a dagger so the game sword deals more damage than a dagger. My characters strength is really strong, so he deals even more damage. There are boundaries between how far people want to go which we might call gritty meeting boundaries of fun and speed of play. Examples of threads on armor being more/less cool vs a sword and need a flail or something.

Outside of rpg context, a simulation is a test engine for determining outcomes for certain sets of parameters based on observed relations.

In the rpg context, simulation drives certain game mechanics, depending on the game system you are using.

Simulation (to a certain extent) provides the basis for the GM to provide a consistent and reactive world, where consequences of actions or inaction may play out for the player characters to experience.
Sabotage a trading mission, perhaps by delaying it when raiding it doesn't work out, starting a bidding war or bringing in a rival consortium... things like this may start a scenario, a campaign, or a prequel trilogy.

You can simulate an economy or an ecology as the backdrop or even the core activity of your party. BECMI D&D introduced the domain building aspect with at least nods to simulation, while hardcore medieval (or other period) games discuss harvest yields and consequences of supply runs missed, tithes unpaid or herds raided. Even when using large amounts of handwavium, simulation of fictive reality is attempted.

Scarcity is a typical obstacle for characters, requiring missions or plunder to achieve a goal. Already the statement that there is this scarcity is a form of simulation, never mind how well this is thought through.

 

[CreamCloud0]

simulation to me is...trying to give everything enough of it's own set of rules to minimize the amount of times where you need to ask 'well how should this resolve?', it is trying to model the world and the things in it, those things don't need to be realistic outcomes by our standards but they should be realistic by the in-universe standards and expectations.