D&D General The Monsters Know What They're Doing ... Are Unsure on 5e24

[Clint_L]

My players at D&D Club narrowly avoided a TPK in the last game before Xmas Break, and I am far from an adversarial DM, so I don't think the game is that easy.

 

[Lazybones]

The assumption that "other humans" (and using that term itself shows a bias) should fall in the 3 to 18 stat range per an average 3d6 distribution is where I break with Ammann's analysis. I think that PC-exceptionalism taken to this degree makes the world less realistic, not more (whatever that word even means when talking about fantasy where dragons and wish spells exist). I like the new high-CR NPCs a lot in 5e.2024 since I've had to make a lot of them myself for my past campaigns. While I would agree that your average merchant isn't going to have high stats (that's why the Commoner block exists and will apply to 90% of the people you meet), cities, towns, and even some villages should have people who can go toe-to-toe with an adventurer. And not knowing whether the baron you've been asked to investigate is an "average" noble with 9 hp or a prodigy with exceptional abilities can add a certain zest to a scenario.

 

[Chaltab]

Doesn't really matter, and the solutions is simple and the same we did in AD&D with the same issues. Captain of the guards are 5th level fighters. Cultists have really bad spell options, no wonder they aren't challenging, so now they all just become Warlocks and Clerics. Dragons get Wizard or Sorcerer levels. Etc etc etc.

It looks like the Guard Captain is a 10th level character judging by its hit dice. It's perfectly reasonable for a 10th level of any class to have an 18 in their primary attack stat.

 

[Clint_L]

On the other hand, I do hate the changes to Beastmaster (that's a Tasha's thing, though) and other changes in the updated rules to "streamline" monsters and animals for things like summoning spells, wildshape, etc. These are not about verisimilitude for me, but just that I don't think the current rules deliver on classic fantasy tropes in those cases.

 

[Parmandur]

The assumption that "other humans" (and using that term itself shows a bias) should fall in the 3 to 18 stat range per an average 3d6 distribution is where I break with Ammann's analysis. I think that PC-exceptionalism taken to this degree makes the world less realistic, not more (whatever that word even means when talking about fantasy where dragons and wish spells exist). I like the new high-CR NPCs a lot in 5e.2024 since I've had to make a lot of them myself for my past campaigns. While I would agree that your average merchant isn't going to have high stats (that's why the Commoner block exists and will apply to 90% of the people you meet), cities, towns, and even some villages should have people who can go toe-to-toe with an adventurer. And not knowing whether the baron you've been asked to investigate is an "average" noble with 9 hp or a prodigy with exceptional abilities can add a certain zest to a scenario.

Honestly, 2014 didn't assume that sort of simulationist landscape either, so it's not even really something I'd consider a change?

 

[Clint_L]

The assumption that "other humans" (and using that term itself shows a bias) should fall in the 3 to 18 stat range per an average 3d6 distribution is where I break with Ammann's analysis. I think that PC-exceptionalism taken to this degree makes the world less realistic, not more (whatever that word even means when talking about fantasy where dragons and wish spells exist). I like the new high-CR NPCs a lot in 5e.2024 since I've had to make a lot of them myself for my past campaigns. While I would agree that your average merchant isn't going to have high stats (that's why the Commoner block exists and will apply to 90% of the people you meet), cities, towns, and even some villages should have people who can go toe-to-toe with an adventurer. And not knowing whether the baron you've been asked to investigate is an "average" noble with 9 hp or a prodigy with exceptional abilities can add a certain zest to a scenario.

Building on that, I think player characters are not particularly exceptional, especially at level 1. I see no reason why a commoner who is a big, burly woodsman or whatever couldn't have an 18 strength.

I much prefer the trope of characters as fairly ordinary people who learn as they go rather than "chosen one" heroes.

 

[Marc17]

It looks like the Guard Captain is a 10th level character judging by its hit dice. It's perfectly reasonable for a 10th level of any class to have an 18 in their primary attack stat.

Ya, I haven't actually looked at the entry in the MM yet. I typically don't use those sorts of monster entries such as I'll just generate my own. 10 is probably a bit high for what I'd make such an NPC unless they were supposed to be a named NPC involved in plot or Captain of the Guard over a major city or the like.

 

[Parmandur]

Building on that, I think player characters are not particularly exceptional, especially at level 1. I see no reason why a commoner who is a big, burly woodsman or whatever couldn't have an 18 strength.

I much prefer the trope of characters as fairly ordinary people who learn as they go rather than "chosen one" heroes.

I believe they were referencing the complaint in the OP about how NPCs are not sticking to a strict 3d6 bellcurve for their abilities, which is the OG assumption for PCs as well.

 

[Mephista]

I mean, if a flesh and blood creature is type elemental, than that means the game mechanic “elemental” doesn’t mean immortal spirit, right?

Amusingly enough, the definition of Elemental from the MM25 is still "hails from the elemental planes." Which is at odds with how merfolk and lizardfolk are depicted. So, the book itself remains confused on the matter.

 

[Parmandur]

Ya, I haven't actually looked at the entry in the MM yet. I typically don't use those sorts of monster entries such as I'll just generate my own. 10 is probably a bit high for what I'd make such an NPC unless they were supposed to be a named NPC involved in plot or Captain of the Guard over a major city or the like.

A CR 10 NPC is meant to be very significant.