D&D General The Monsters Know What They're Doing ... Are Unsure on 5e24

They're player friendly variants, draconians were early attempts at the idea of 'player-friendly dragon people' whereas dragonborn are a more refined attempt given the hot mess that was 3e draconians
Whoah.... no they absolutely weren't. Draconians were a replacement for orcs, and other 1E "bad guys to be killed". They weren't intended for players at all, and not until the book Draconian Measures and subsequently 3rd edition were they ever held up as a player race.
 

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Half-Dragon PCs For All Worlds Half-Dragon PCs For All Worlds

Behold! the 2e half-dragons from Council of Wyrms, expanded to other D&D settings.
Half Dragons are not Dragonborn, and they appeared once in a niche 2E product (I love Council of Wyrms, and I own it, but its depiction of "half-dragons" does not match Krynnish half-dragons (who work completely differently, based on their very minor appearances in the lore).
 

There are other reasons a DM might ban a class, rule, or spell, beside their whim or "setting integrity", or game balance."

For example, when I started running 5E, I outright banned warlocks. I had never played in or run a 5E game, but had read the PHB and had plenty of general D&D experience. Everyone else I was running the game for had even less experience with 5E or any edition of D&D. I bounced off the warlock and I didn't want to deal with learning a new class mechanic while a newb might also be trying to figure it out, while I also trying to satisfyingly integrate the idea of an otherworldly patron into the campaign narrative for the first time. So I told everyone to avoid it. (Though, I think if I had had a more experienced player (both with the game and with my DMing style) wanting to try it out for the first time, I would have likely taken that trip with them). Having had time to integrate them with the setting, and spend more time playing in game with them, my Vanity Frankenstein 5E, will include a modified version of the warlock tied more specifically into the setting..

Then again, the current homebrew setting I use bans* one of the game's core species (elves) as PCs, but they still exist in the game world! So my whim still rules supreme! :LOL:

* though there is a potential elf-related replacement for elves and half-elves (the latter of which simply don't exist).
In my current spelljammer game I banned Warlocks and Clerics as first levels options. Because (I don't think my players are on ENworld, so I can spoil it here) the campaign began with them waking up in an abandoned asteroid base in, what they later had figured out, clone tanks without memory of their past life.
They have knowledge about their classes, and life and stuff, but not of their own past.
It's because the clone spell was wrong and the soul transfer didn't work, so they are basically "newborn" beings, but with some knowledge of the originals (hence they have classes and knowledge language and stuff).
But because they are basically Newborns, they can't have a god or patron yet, so no warlocks or clerics at level 1. Non of my players opted out because of that restriction.

Of course later they can take levels in that classes (and one already took a level of cleric).
 

if the instructions are unclear to them, why wouldn’t they ask for clarification instead of shrugging them off and acting as if there weren’t any
Why should they?

The players were given the parameters and came to the table with ideas that met them.

Again it's more work but idea should not be forced to run for something they don't want to run. Because of that they must tell someone what they don't want to run. That's on them.
 

Why should they?
because it is the normal thing to do… when you ask me for directions and I give them in a way that is unclear to you, do you just head off not knowing where to go or do you ask for clarifications?

The players were given the parameters and came to the table with ideas that met them.
no they did not, they did not understand the parameters so they have no idea whether their ideas meet the requirements

Again it's more work but idea should not be forced to run for something they don't want to run. Because of that they must tell someone what they don't want to run. That's on them.
no one is being forced to run anything, if the player shows up with an idea that does not meet the parameters, the DM will tell them and they will need to come up with a different idea then.

Coming up with a matching idea in advance just avoids having to do do so on the fly (and if they insist on their incompatible idea, then they cannot force the DM to accept it either)
 
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because it is the normal thing to do… when you ask me for directions and I give them in a way that is unclear to you, do you just head off not knowing where to go or do you ask for clarifications?
I'm not saying it's unclear to the player. That's the point we're not talking about a person who is confused about what kind of player they're allowed to be play. We're talking about ADM who did not clearly tell a player that the idea that they have in their head are not allowed at that game.

DM: I'm running an Arctic game would you like to play.
Player: Sure. That's sounds cool. Frozen tundras and stuff. I guess I can't play in 2014 Arctic Ranger because that would make it too easy, right?
DM: of course meet us back here at 1:00 p.m. Saturday.
Player: Cool. Cool.

Player: Got my Kobold Pyromancer wizard.
DM: Sorry. No reptilians and no pyromancers.
Player: You didn't say that before. Kurig had a vendetta against the God of Ice and came from the south to melt a glacier.
 

One of the many reasons I love Mythras for Dark Sun is because Mythras makes big things as destructive, dangerous and impervious as they should be. Half giants are actually half giants, with all that entails.

The problem with Mythras for Dark Sun is all the obscenely huge things in the setting end up as destructive, dangerous and impervious as they should be, and I found I had to shrink many of them in order for them to be even vaguely susceptible to physical harm.
I don't mind size large PCs... at least in 3.5 when being that big took a big hit to ac and dex saves to offset the huge benefits of taking up 4 squares on the grid. Squeezing rules exist for a reason. I tried adding a similar rule to 5e games at a couple points and the sticking point was not the penalties but quote: "why would we need that ? The grid almost doesn't matter anymore"
Why should they?
Because humans are lazy and very few players are willing to read (or even open) a 70ish page PDF setting document∆ their gm gave them to supplement the 1-2minute broad strokes general overview of the setting
The players were given the parameters and came to the table with ideas that met them.
Take that 1-2 minute broad strokes overview, I've given some variation of it to dozens of players and could probably count the number of players who asked even a single question for clarification beyond some variation of "oh ok sounds cool" on the fingers of one hand. It's not like the GM can devote the first 5819 seconds of session zero to a crash course dive into into the setting and expect players to sit through paying enough attention to absorb it. I may have once run a d&d game in a literal community playspace surrounded by bandage gear/equipment but I have never once seen a player who could not physically leave mister endless "GMs can't force people to play".

I'm not saying it's unclear to the player. That's the point we're not talking about a person who is confused about what kind of player they're allowed to be play. We're talking about ADM who did not clearly tell a player that the idea that they have in their head are not allowed at that game.

DM: I'm running an Arctic game would you like to play.
Player: Sure. That's sounds cool. Frozen tundras and stuff. I guess I can't play in 2014 Arctic Ranger because that would make it too easy, right?
DM: of course meet us back here at 1:00 p.m. Saturday.
Player: Cool. Cool.

Player: Got my Kobold Pyromancer wizard.
DM: Sorry. No reptilians and no pyromancers.
Player: You didn't say that before. Kurig had a vendetta against the God of Ice and came from the south to melt a glacier.
Players rarely ask any questions let alone constructive ones like that.

I've yet to meet a gm with the mind reading capabilities of professor X or Jean Grey. Are you suggesting that developing that particular flavor of mutant gene from X-Men should be penciled in as a requirement for gms to engage in setting citation alongside being "the next Tolkien" as suggested by someone earlier in the thread?

∆ I linked it earlier
 

People don't ask questions.
Players don't ask questions.

So if setting integrity matters to you. You need to speak up and state setting restrictions and gameplay expectations which are contrary to the book the players get their creation rules from.

I'm sorry. I'm mostly a GM and pro-DM, but you gotta talk.

If your setting has a LOT of changes, it's probably too much for the average gamer. You don't gotta change them but you have to accept that you'll scare many off and many won't pay attention to all of it

Not saying you have to change. But major divergence might lower your player pool.

If you don't want lizardfolk, say no lizardfolk.
 

Why are we moralizing people's version of fun?
For the same reason so many GMs on this very forum have bemoaned their terrible plight, being the victim of the horrible, manipulative, nasty players; these poor, beleaguered GMs with absolute power, and an edition which bends over backwards to make their word law, as hard as iron, cannot do anything about these nasty players with such HORRID demands as "well I was kind of hoping I could play a dragonborn".
 

People don't ask questions.
Players don't ask questions.

So if setting integrity matters to you. You need to speak up and state setting restrictions and gameplay expectations which are contrary to the book the players get their creation rules from.

I'm sorry. I'm mostly a GM and pro-DM, but you gotta talk.

If your setting has a LOT of changes, it's probably too much for the average gamer. You don't gotta change them but you have to accept that you'll scare many off and many won't pay attention to all of it

Not saying you have to change. But major divergence might lower your player pool.

If you don't want lizardfolk, say no lizardfolk.
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Did you get space sickness moving that goalpost? how did you get to that from players getting setting/campaign "instructions" that are unclear to them but shrugging it off and acting as if they were clear rather than asking for clarification?
 

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