D&D 5E (2024) Wizard vs Sorcerer (a Campaign Experience)

[UngeheuerLich]

Yeah that would be a pretty big nerf to something that is not very powerful to start with, and no other monster attack works like that with a save in the 2024 rules AFAIK. An unarmed strike is a melee attack, but it is a special case with its own verbiage specific to it and states it is a "melee attack" while this doesn't.

Yeah. Ok.

It is an ok houserule as long as it comes out in session 0, but I would be pretty upset as a player if this was sprung on me well into my character build, like the first time I tried it in play.

No problem. I undestand if you are upset when you want use the only familiar that has an at will ability it can use all the time because it does not involve an attack roll instead of all the other familiars who have limited abilities and usual attacks but the DM does not agree with you.

 

[ECMO3]

No problem. I undestand if you are upset when you want use the only familiar that has an at will ability it can use all the time because it does not involve an attack roll instead of all the other familiars who have limited abilities and usual attacks but the DM does not agree with you.

They are not the only familiar with at will abilities. A Quasit has Scare, a Sprite has Heartsight, Imp, Sprite and Quasit all have Invisibility, Raven has mimicry and Octopus has Ink cloud. None of these involve an attack roll and all of them except Scare and Ink Cloud are at will. Although Scare and Ink Cloud are not technically at will, they are at will in play because a Warlock can just summon another Familiar.

Even with the at will ability the PD is not one of the strongest familiars, in part because the DC sucks. At low level Imp and Sphinx are the strongest familiars in combat, way stronger in fact than the party Warlock himself, or other PCs until level 3 or so. A Quasit is also generally stronger than a Pseudodragon at all levels. The Pseudodragon has a decent at will ability but it is a situational ability with a very low DC (without spending 2 invocations) and requires the familiar to get within 5 feet of an enemy. This relatively good ability is offset by the fact the PD has a useless attack, terrible hit points, no Invisibility and no resistances or immunities like most of the Warlock-specific familiars do.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

They are not the only familiar with at will abilities. A Quasit has Scare, a Sprite has Heartsight, Imp, Sprite and Quasit all have Invisibility, Raven has mimicry and Octopus has Ink cloud. None of these involve an attack roll and all of them except Scare and Ink Cloud are at will. Although Scare and Ink Cloud are not technically at will, they are at will in play because a Warlock can just summon another Familiar.

I don't allow that either.

I don't want the warlock to change their familiar everytime.
I think of it as a companion. So if you summon an imp, it is the same imp everytime.
I get that in 5e, it technically is allowed to circumvent restrictions (see the doscussion of people who think that readying an action with action surge allows them to cast a spell despite the newly introduced limitation), but we just don't play this way.

Even with the at will ability the PD is not one of the strongest familiars, in part because the DC sucks. At low level Imp and Sphinx are the strongest familiars in combat, way stronger in fact than the party Warlock himself, or other PCs until level 3 or so.

Yes, imp is good. I also like the quasit.

A Quasit is also generally stronger than a Pseudodragon at all levels. The Pseudodragon has a decent at will ability but it is a situational ability with a very low DC (without spending 2 invocations) and requires the familiar to get within 5 feet of an enemy. This relatively good ability is offset by the fact the PD has a useless attack, terrible hit points, no Invisibility and no resistances or immunities like most of the Warlock-specific familiars do.

I get that. But I don't like the mindset.

 

[Ancalagon]

very interesting. But I'm not sure that this campaign, although 100% valid and I'm sure you are having fun, is the one to compare the two, because comparison between then are obscured by 2 things:

1: Control vs Blast - is one PC doing better because of their class or their playstyle choice?
2: Bladesigner: that's... you should compare that one to a bladelock or valor bard. It's a gish, not quite the same thing.

The "best" way to compare would be a campaign with 2 fairly similar PCs, except one is a sorcerer and one is a wizard. But that's not great, because now you have a party with 2 members that do almost the same thing.

 

[Zardnaar]

very interesting. But I'm not sure that this campaign, although 100% valid and I'm sure you are having fun, is the one to compare the two, because comparison between then are obscured by 2 things:

1: Control vs Blast - is one PC doing better because of their class or their playstyle choice?
2: Bladesigner: that's... you should compare that one to a bladelock or valor bard. It's a gish, not quite the same thing.

The "best" way to compare would be a campaign with 2 fairly similar PCs, except one is a sorcerer and one is a wizard. But that's not great, because now you have a party with 2 members that do almost the same thing.