D&D 5E (2024) Tier 1 Encounters RAW Getting Hit With Cone of Cold 4th Level?

[Zardnaar]

These are good examples of why trying to mathematicise encounter design is doomed to fail. 45 goblins running at the party down a narrow corridor is a pushover. 45 goblins shooting arrows from behind crenelated walls is going to be difficult. A mindflayer who manages to get the whole party inside the cone AoE of it's mind blast in round one could easily get a TPK. But the same mindflayer shot full of arrows at range is a pushover.

As for Cone of Cold, D&D has a long tradition of taking out casters before they can get a spell off, so it doesn't really matter what they can cast. But Hypnotic Pattern is level 2 and potentially more dangerous than CoC.

In 5th edition, sure.

And in 4E as well. They rewrote the MM and it still wasnt great.

 

[Zardnaar]

I actually just got done reading Draw Steel!'s advice on encounter building, and I think they summed it up nicely for any D&D style RPG. It read something like (not verbatim):

It's not science. There are too many variables to create encounters using any system design. Too many monsters. Too many variations on character builds. Too much chemistry between character builds. Too many maps that help/hinder. Too many magical items heroes might have gathered. Too much variance on the tactical skills of players. And too many variables in a swingy dice system. Too many variables to ever have an efficient encounter design builder.

To me, that sums it up quite well. I mean, you yourself spotted the inconsistencies at the beginning of your post. So my advice would be to start building encounters that fit your environment, story, PCs, and players. I think you will slowly begin to understand that none of the encounter design stuff matters much. It is mostly about common sense and those variables, and that is what you need to focus on.

Experimenting atm. Generally I do limit it to X2 party size. So no 45 Goblins as a low encounter.

New monsters awn to work but updates of the old ones not so much.

Im thinking a pyramid structure. 1 higher CR critters, 2 medium CR, 4-8;fodder.

Eg low encounter 1 CR2, 4 CR 1, 8 CR 1/4

 

[Scott Christian]

Experimenting atm. Generally I do limit it to X2 party size. So no 45 Goblins as a low encounter.

New monsters awn to work but updates of the old ones not so much.

Im thinking a pyramid structure. 1 higher CR critters, 2 medium CR, 4-8;fodder.

Eg low encounter 1 CR2, 4 CR 1, 8 CR 1/4

Perhaps trying 1-2 combat encounters per long rest? That way, the party's not going to be in too much danger, but you can stretch and flex your creative impulses.

 

[Zardnaar]

Perhaps trying 1-2 combat encounters per long rest? That way, the party's not going to be in too much danger, but you can stretch and flex your creative impulses.

I was doing that lower level. At 4th its around 3 encounters depleted them.

Each level you can almost add an extra encounter or extra high one every 2/levels.

Or you just go don't care and do 1-2 encounters go to next set piece.

 

[Zardnaar]

Thoughts on a high encounter.

1 CR4
2 CR2
5 CR 1/2s.

Using "orcs" Thug leader, Eye of Grumsh (cult fanatic) 1 Champion (Berzerker) 5 Thugs.

3 CR3s and 4 1's could work. That's potentially 300 hp to chew through though.

 

[Scott Christian]

Thoughts on a high encounter.

1 CR4
2 CR2
5 CR 1s.

Using "orcs" Thug leader, Eye of Grumsh (cult fanatic) 1 Champion (Berzerker) 5 Thugs.

Yeah, that seems like it might work. I don't know the environment or character abilities or the players' tactical knowledge, so it is hard to say. But, I know any group of five at that I've run wouldn't find this encounter too difficult. Again, there are variables.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah, that seems like it might work. I don't know the environment or character abilities or the players' tactical knowledge, so it is hard to say. But, I know any group of five at that I've run wouldn't find this encounter too difficult. Again, there are variables.

1 powergamer, 2 veterans, 2 newer players (1 year+ now though).

Powergamer knowledge cleric
Veterans Paladin and Rogue
Newer players Barbarian, Druid

 

[Scott Christian]

1 powergamer, 2 veterans, 2 newer players (1 year+ now though).

A fun encounter in my opinion. But that's good. Because dice are swingy. It is a good litmus test.

 

[Zardnaar]

A fun encounter in my opinion. But that's good. Because dice are swingy. It is a good litmus test.

Well the theme of today is Trouble at Olegs.

Tgeve offended the Sgades who are unleashing tge Orcs. Bridge to level 5 when they get to mess around with a portal network.

 

[Zardnaar]

I actually just got done reading Draw Steel!'s advice on encounter building, and I think they summed it up nicely for any D&D style RPG. It read something like (not verbatim):

It's not science. There are too many variables to create encounters using any system design. Too many monsters. Too many variations on character builds. Too much chemistry between character builds. Too many maps that help/hinder. Too many magical items heroes might have gathered. Too much variance on the tactical skills of players. And too many variables in a swingy dice system. Too many variables to ever have an efficient encounter design builder.

To me, that sums it up quite well. I mean, you yourself spotted the inconsistencies at the beginning of your post. So my advice would be to start building encounters that fit your environment, story, PCs, and players. I think you will slowly begin to understand that none of the encounter design stuff matters much. It is mostly about common sense and those variables, and that is what you need to focus on.

AD&D approach.

3E,4E,5E tried to force it unto a spreadsheet.