D&D 5E (2024) This Feels Like 4E

[Paul Farquhar]

Really? Fun police?

D&D is a group fun activity. If it’s not fun for the group you are doing something wrong. If something is making your game not fun it generally falls to the DM, in the leadership position, to take the lead in sorting it out. But everyone will be glad that they did.

An at will time suck design

As Doctor Malcom would point out, just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should do something. And I get the impression the your problem is caused by your players cheesing the free weapon swap rule (which is intended for something completely different).

 

[Zardnaar]

You know we aren't discussing a single player game right?

It's mind numbing when player after player after player is wasting time weapon juggling and wandering around making every combat turn into a drawn out slog of three stooges square dancing

Are people actually weapon juggling or is at online theorycrafting?

 

[Distracted DM]

Are people actually weapon juggling or is at online theorycrafting?

Can't it be both? But yes, optimizer/power gamer-type players will absolutely try to get the most mechanical advantages via weapon juggling. I can't fault them if it's intended by the design, it just feels exploitative.

 

[Zardnaar]

Can't it be both? But yes, optimizer/power gamer-type players will absolutely try to get the most mechanical advantages via weapon juggling. I can't fault them if it's intended by the design, it just feels exploitative.

Seems to be an invented enworld problem.

We did a deep dive elsewhere on actual problems. CME got number 1 but rarely used, emanations, chromatic orb got mentioned along with verzerker barbarian iirc

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Are people actually weapon juggling or is at online theorycrafting?

In my game it never came up actually. Players are rather more restrictive to themselves than I would be.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Platonic bonding is the gateway to abilities some may consider.... unnatural.

Is it...possible to learn this power?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Are people actually weapon juggling or is at online theorycrafting?

For perhaps the first time ever, I am actually with you on this one. I've played in three campaigns since 5.5e launched (well, one was just before the official launch) and I've seen exactly none of the "juggling" folks talk about here. Instead, I've seen quite a bit more dual-wielding than I had previously. The only thing even remotely approximating "weapon juggling" is that the warlock in my current game will occasionally call in different weapons with his Pact Weapon feature, and he tries to call in ones that would be useful in conjunction with his Fighter levels. As it stands though, it's nothing like the nightmare scenario described upthread where you have a single PC juggling 3+ weapons nearly every round of combat in the slowest and most laborious way.

Which is honestly really frustrating because that presents this idea that it's somehow specially bad that a Fighter or Paladin (or whatever) might do this....when this sort of hemming-and-hawing, "juggling" options, etc. has been a perennial problem of (neo-)Vancian spellcasters for literally half a century at this point. Fighters having the teeniest, tiniest, most vaguely pseudo-similar situation is a HUGE PROBLEM, but full casters having a much more thoroughgoing version of this problem is totally okay? Yeah, sure, pull the other one.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I can't fault them if it's intended by the design,

It’s not. People forget that D&D is intended as an entry level/casual RPG. The free weapon swap rule is so players don’t need to carefully track what their character has in their hands from moment to moment.

The intended design is players will use weapon mastery with one melee and one ranged weapon, or two if dual wielding, and stick with that unless they encounter a better weapon during the game.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

It’s not. People forget that D&D is intended as an entry level/casual RPG. The free weapon swap rule is so players don’t need to carefully track what their character has in their hands from moment to moment.

If that was the design intent, then every designer since Gary Gygax has horrendously failed at that goal, to an utterly absurd degree.

There is nothing actually casual/entry-level about D&D. Never has been. The only reason it gets away with anyone thinking it is such is because it's so monolithic, nobody else ever sees anything else.

It would be like saying Windows is a beginner's-first-operating-system, simply because it has the market share to be what almost every beginner is going to get on their first computer.

 

[TwoSix]

If that was the design intent, then every designer since Gary Gygax has horrendously failed at that goal, to an utterly absurd degree.

I certainly think that wasn't the original goal for early D&D; the original group was focused on creating a houseruled version of a wargame. Those aren't the type of people who do casual!

Being able to onboard new players is almost certainly a design goal for modern D&D like 5e, but D&D has too much legacy cruft to be able to make an actual easy onboard for new players.