D&D 5E (2024) This Feels Like 4E

[Horwath]

The way I see it, weapon juggling is very much in the same ballpark as the Bag of Rats, and the Peasant Railgun. Sure, it’s technically allowed, but obviously against the spirit of rules.

Doesn’t mean players won’t try to take advantage. I’m sure we’ve all had players like that at some point. Way back when we were in high school, I had a friend who was notorious for coming up with stuff like that. And every time he explained some weird rule combination that would somehow give him 5 attacks a round at 1st level (true example btw), whoever was the DM would listen, and then say “No”. Or, “Hell no!”. Accompanied (at least once) with a thrown d20 . And the game would continue.

So, I don’t doubt there are groups dealing with this. But I’m slightly boggled why the DM just doesn’t say “no” if they feel it’s a problem. Sure, the rules could have added a line somewhere to officially nix this. But if they added a line to anticipate and nix every crazy min max strategy players come up with, the book would be twice as long. And they’d still miss something…

D&D 5E (2024) Post in thread 'An alternate Weapon Mastery system I'm noodling...'

Oct 20, 2023

One complaint what I have with mastery mechanics is that is tied to a weapon not a user.

If you know the Mastery Graze then you should apply it to every weapon that qualifies for it(Melee, Heavy in this case)

If you know Vex, just use it with any finesse or ranged weapon.

Nick is for every light weapon.

If my fighter knows 6 masteries, I really do not want it to look like this guy:

• Horwath

posted more than 2 years ago that with mastery being tied to specific weapon, this will be the result of it.

 

[Reef]

D&D 5E (2024) Post in thread 'An alternate Weapon Mastery system I'm noodling...'

Oct 20, 2023

One complaint what I have with mastery mechanics is that is tied to a weapon not a user.

If you know the Mastery Graze then you should apply it to every weapon that qualifies for it(Melee, Heavy in this case)

If you know Vex, just use it with any finesse or ranged weapon.

Nick is for every light weapon.

If my fighter knows 6 masteries, I really do not want it to look like this guy:

• Horwath

posted more than 2 years ago that with mastery being tied to specific weapon, this will be the result of it.

I’m not sure what that has to do with the weapon juggling conundrum. And I’m not sure why wanting to carry 6 weapons is a problem, if they want to.

But I also don’t see why knowing six Masteries means they have to carry six weapons. Having the option doesn’t mean needing to have the option at hand every minute. Fighters know how to wear all types of armor…are we now expecting them to carry a Light, Medium, and Heavy at all times? Just because they know six masteries, isn’t it more likely they still just pick one or two to use regularly?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

And I’m not sure why wanting to carry 6 weapons is a problem, if they want to.

The character who, when asked to surrender their weapons, pulls out more and more weapons, is quite a common trope.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExtendedDisarming

 

[Reef]

The character who, when asked to surrender their weapons, pulls out more and more weapons, is quite a common trope.

Oh yeah, and I have nothing against it if they choose to do so. Just not sure why its suddenly seen as a mandatory thing that they'll be forced to do.

I would be enforcing encumbrance rules in that case though

 

[Horwath]

I’m not sure what that has to do with the weapon juggling conundrum. And I’m not sure why wanting to carry 6 weapons is a problem, if they want to.

But I also don’t see why knowing six Masteries means they have to carry six weapons. Having the option doesn’t mean needing to have the option at hand every minute. Fighters know how to wear all types of armor…are we now expecting them to carry a Light, Medium, and Heavy at all times? Just because they know six masteries, isn’t it more likely they still just pick one or two to use regularly?

If I have 6 weapon masteries, I want option to use any of them on any given round.

that is why masteries should have been like BM maneuvers.


as for armor, if I have decent dex, I might carry stealth and non stealth armor.

IE: 14 dex and full plate is 18 AC, but I might have breastplate for 16 AC when we need to have mandatory stealth.
maybe DM will allow me to just downdress fullplate to breastplate in a round or two.

 

[Horwath]

The character who, when asked to surrender their weapons, pulls out more and more weapons, is quite a common trope.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExtendedDisarming

or this scene

 

[Reef]

If I have 6 weapon masteries, I want option to use any of them on any given round.

that is why masteries should have been like BM maneuvers.


as for armor, if I have decent dex, I might carry stealth and non stealth armor.

IE: 14 dex and full plate is 18 AC, but I might have breastplate for 16 AC when we need to have mandatory stealth.
maybe DM will allow me to just downdress fullplate to breastplate in a round or two.

Well, that’s your choice. And as a DM, I wouldn’t tell you no (although I darn well will be paying attention to weight). But I have my doubts as to whether this is a widespread concern. I’ve seen a lot of fighters, and at most it seems to be a main weapon (or pair), a ranged weapon, and maybe one alternative (1h vs 2h). I have absolutely never seen anyone carry multiple sets of armor (which is why I used that as an extreme example).

But again, sure, you do you, if that’s what you want. I’d certainly allow it, unless you tried to swap out weapons in the middle of the attack routine. In that case, you’d better be prepared to duck the d20s winging your way .

 

[WitchyD]

If I have 6 weapon masteries, I want option to use any of them on any given round

that is why masteries should have been like BM maneuvers.

As someone who prefers 4e, it's really amusing to see something happen over and over: folks who take issue with something 5.x did and proposing or house ruling it to work closer to how 4e did it.

That 5e 2024 feels closer to 4e seems like WotC is just following feedback about 5e 2014.

 

[Horwath]

But again, sure, you do you, if that’s what you want. I’d certainly allow it, unless you tried to swap out weapons in the middle of the attack routine. In that case, you’d better be prepared to duck the d20s winging your way .

well, per rules, you can do that.

also, I approve of hitting people with d20 for various reasons,
especially when they play a rogue and do not know sneak attack rules by 3rd session...

 

[CreamCloud0]

I’m not sure what that has to do with the weapon juggling conundrum. And I’m not sure why wanting to carry 6 weapons is a problem, if they want to.

But I also don’t see why knowing six Masteries means they have to carry six weapons. Having the option doesn’t mean needing to have the option at hand every minute. Fighters know how to wear all types of armor…are we now expecting them to carry a Light, Medium, and Heavy at all times? Just because they know six masteries, isn’t it more likely they still just pick one or two to use regularly?

no, but armour is basically just improvements on each tier, number go up, well medium and heavy are more sidegrades to each other, so you usually spec into one type or the other, do you use DEX or STR? but otherwise you just want the best one you can get your hands on,

masteries on the other hand all offer different options that are far more dependent on the situation to determine their value, if you've got a crowd of weak enemies you'll want cleave or nick, maybe you want to topple a flying enemy, graze for something evasive with high AC, sap for big hitters and so on, but, given that masteries are tied to weapons you need those weapons on hand if you want to actually use that mastery, it's no use coming up against a heavy hitting ogre and saying 'sorry guys i didn't bring my sap longsword, i thought i'd focus on cleave/slow today!' casters don't say 'well, i could've brought an arcane focus that works as the material component for all my spells, but instead i though i'd only get the diamond and focus on using chromatic orb regularly'