Pineapple Express: Someone Is Wrong on the Internet?

[RealAlHazred]

I am always extremely disappointed in people who decide that they need to go through and nuke their entire posting history when they decide to leave ENWorld. It strikes me as very childish; making sure they destroy any conversation they were a part of because they don't want to play anymore. Luckily, it's only happened a handful of times over the years.

Speaking seriously for a change, I have seen people who misunderstand copyright, who nuke their own post histories because, say, they posted some worldbuilding they were doing and wanted to maintain copyright in case they published. Which I understand, even if I think it's unfair -- you're basically posting on a private forum for people to comment; presumably, even if you don't use the ideas people reply with, they are at least informing your decisions. It seems grossly unfair to use that mental labor and then wipe it out so that they can't go back and refer to the original.

On the orther hand, your ideas are the only things you actually truly own, in the sense that people can't take them from you -- except in the sense of taking ideas you post, in a private forum or elsewhere. So, in that sense it makes total sense to burn your bridges when you leave.

On the other other hand, the whole, "the Internet never forgets" thing is complete BS. While it is a cultural monolith that has been created by the labor of millions of people and is therefore a thing to marvel at, it is also being chipped away by these sorts of actions -- cease-and-desist letters, nuking posts in forums, bankruptcies of websites, etc. The loss to RPGs when Yahoo! Groups and Google Plus went away is huge.

 

[TiQuinn]

The loss to RPGs when Yahoo! Groups and Google Plus went away is huge.

I was on Wikipedia looking something up and clicked on the reference link for a cite, and of course, it’s completely vanished. Makes me think Internet Archive might be the most important site on the Internet.

 

[RealAlHazred]

My favorite (?) thing on the Internet, currently.

OP: "My fellow <group members>, what do you think about X?"
First freaking post: "I am not part of <group members>, but here's a detailed, 5,000 word essay on my thoughts on the matter."

 

[Ryujin]

Speaking seriously for a change, I have seen people who misunderstand copyright, who nuke their own post histories because, say, they posted some worldbuilding they were doing and wanted to maintain copyright in case they published. Which I understand, even if I think it's unfair -- you're basically posting on a private forum for people to comment; presumably, even if you don't use the ideas people reply with, they are at least informing your decisions. It seems grossly unfair to use that mental labor and then wipe it out so that they can't go back and refer to the original.

On the orther hand, your ideas are the only things you actually truly own, in the sense that people can't take them from you -- except in the sense of taking ideas you post, in a private forum or elsewhere. So, in that sense it makes total sense to burn your bridges when you leave.

On the other other hand, the whole, "the Internet never forgets" thing is complete BS. While it is a cultural monolith that has been created by the labor of millions of people and is therefore a thing to marvel at, it is also being chipped away by these sorts of actions -- cease-and-desist letters, nuking posts in forums, bankruptcies of websites, etc. The loss to RPGs when Yahoo! Groups and Google Plus went away is huge.

I had a situation in which I felt that I had to put a board's host on notice about my posts. There's a for profit company that started buying up motorsports fora, back in the late 2Ks. I don't know about now, but back then they owned something like 75% of all motorsports fora in North America and were going for essentially a monopoly. I had been doing professional motorcycle racing photography for quite a while and had posted a fair number of pictures there. They made a formal announcement that they owned all media on that forum and I had seen them use other people's work out of license in the past. I objected and stated I did not contract for that. I then demanded that if they were going to enforce ownership, I wanted my account, and all connected data, purged.

They actually did it, much to my surprise, but no one gets to profit from my sweat unless I do, as well.

 

[RealAlHazred]

To specify what I meant by "misunderstand copyright," you can't copyright ideas (like, say, "an epic adventure against a dark god with all cultures depicted superficially similar to Pacific Islander cultures") but you can copyright a specific expression of an idea (like, say, Disney's Moana). So, if you're worldbuilding and put a lot of information on your setting in a post, and later on publish that setting, so long as you rewrite it your work has copyright. Any text which exactly resembles your post is arguable (IANAL) but ENWorld is a private forum -- the only person who might legally be in the clear if they use the exact text from the post is possibly @Morrus .

 

[Willie the Duck]

To specify what I meant by "misunderstand copyright,"

Another thing that might be happening is that people think that it is the idea, not the execution, that is the big achievement. Which is to say they do not misunderstand copyright, but instead misunderstand what part of their creative endeavor is important (and if it isn't copyright-able, all the more reason to try to protect it).

 

[payn]

Having a lot of "wait...what?" moments from posts today.

 

[Ryujin]

To specify what I meant by "misunderstand copyright," you can't copyright ideas (like, say, "an epic adventure against a dark god with all cultures depicted superficially similar to Pacific Islander cultures") but you can copyright a specific expression of an idea (like, say, Disney's Moana). So, if you're worldbuilding and put a lot of information on your setting in a post, and later on publish that setting, so long as you rewrite it your work has copyright. Any text which exactly resembles your post is arguable (IANAL) but ENWorld is a private forum -- the only person who might legally be in the clear if they use the exact text from the post is possibly @Morrus .

Not necessarily true. In the US, at least, I would tend to think that Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act works against the ability to claim ownership. If you can't be held liable for the statements of third parties, then you can't also claim ownership of them.

(Though I am also not a lawyer.)

 

[RealAlHazred]

(Though I am also not a lawyer.)

It's just a thread of people who like to hear themselves talk! Much like the rest of the Internet!

EDIT: That said, this is the US: it is perfectly feasible that the Law holds one group accountable in one specific use-case, while not holding them liable in a similar-but-legally-distinct use-case...

 

[Ryujin]

It's just a thread of people who like to hear themselves talk! Much like the rest of the Internet!

EDIT: That said, this is the US: it is perfectly feasible that the Law holds one group accountable in one specific use-case, while not holding them liable in a similar-but-legally-distinct use-case...

Yup, just novices commenting on professional level things

From what little I know I would say that a forum owner has license to content that others post, or they couldn't disseminate it. That doesn't equal ownership.