Obryn
Hero
(reposted from elsewhere)
Alright, for some background... I've been playing D&D for around 30 years now, since the ripe age of 7 when my Magic User got eaten by a gelatinous cube in the Caves of Chaos. I've played D&D of each edition more or less as it came out, and am currently running a 4e Dark Sun game using some 2e supplements. My favorite editions right now - both of which I've run fairly recently - are 1e and 4e, and I'm looking for a reason I'd want to play 5e instead of either of the above.
So that's who I am. My group is a mixture of casual and serious players, all of whom have also been gaming for quite a while. We got together last night to roll some dice and kill monsters and, incidentally, playtest 5e.
Wanting to get to the action, we started in the private study of King Monarch Plotdevice. Vile evil humanoids had kidnapped his son, Prince Macguffin Plotdevice, who had been out hunting alone, as those in the Plotdevice line are wont to do. He offered the party 100 gp each to find and rescue the Prince - a nondescript man, who looks like just sort of a person, you know?
Traveling to the Caves, the party decided (using a handy Player's Map I found online) to try the first cave on the lowest level on the right. Cave A. Kobold City.
The Rogue decides to look around for tracks, and is pleased to discover that the lowest he can roll on a skill die is 10. He is somewhat less pleased to discover that his Wisdom modifier is a -1. Still, he rolls sufficiently well to find the "scaly, clawed footprints" ... and to notice a kobold pretending to be just part of the foliage.
At that point, the battle was joined, at a distance of 30'. No minis; we're doing the whole narrative bit. The kobolds' initiative is low. I'm expecting a slaughter.
- The Wizard drops a kobold with a magic missile. (The first of very many. This will be a theme of the night.)
- The Fighter moves up and readies his action, waiting for someone to get into melee with him.
- The halfling hides.
- The "Paladin" decides that valor is the better part of stupidity, closes the distance with the kobolds, and calls to the glory of Moradin to make his aim true. Moradin, being on a coffee break, chooses that he will roll a 2.
Seven kobolds then mob the priest. Now, looking at the kobolds' stat blocks, I noticed something funny. Basically, they rock with daggers, but are hopeless with their supposed main weapon, their spears. Being a kind and generous DM, I proceed to ignore the spears and hack the dwarf down with with daggers.
He's got a good AC, but the first attack is a crit. So's the fourth. All told, four kobolds hit him with daggers, despite his 18 AC, dropping him to -1.
- The human priest tries to Radiant Lance one kobold, misses, and moves up to get closer to Cure Light Wounds range.
Round 2.
- The Wizard drops a kobold with Magic Missile
- The Fighter crits, which would be a lot more impressive if he didn't kill a kobold even on a miss. This importantly brings the kobolds' numbers back down to size.
- The Rogue uses his Advantage and takes out a kobold.
- The kobolds, now down to four, change tactics. Three of them grab the downed dwarf and drag him into their tunnel, yelling for reinforcements. The last makes a valiant stand and hits the Fighter for 6 damage.
- The Priest uses Radiant Lance again. Misses.
Round 3
- The wizard drops a kobold with Magic Missile.
- The fighter runs into the corridor and wrestles the dwarf's body away from the kobolds easily.
- The Rogue drops a kobold with a sling bullet.
- There's only one kobold left, but the six reinforcements (all jumping the corner of the pit) mob the Fighter. Outnumbering him, they bring him to (I think) 2 hp or so.
From here there was a lot of mop-up work. The kobolds were whittled down to size, but the toll was heavy. 14 kobolds, and the two main "tanks" were low on HPs for the rest of the day.
They take their short rest, and are disgruntled at the random Hit Dice. The clerics decide they can't use their spells for anything other than healing, and the party - more cautiously - advances.
Both dwarves in the front rank miraculously make their Dex saves and avoid running headlong into the pit. The paladin immediately runs out and grabs a tree branch, and while he's incommunicado, the rats swarm towards the party.
Initiative. Everyone rolls well, except the rats and the Wizard. The Wizard is dead last. All the other party members form up outside the cave, with the Fighter trying to hide at first. The Wizard gets swarmed by rats.
This was an annoying fight. The Advantage rules required me to make 18 separate paired 2d20 die rolls, for a maximum of 1 point of damage on a hit. Long story short, the Wizard blasts them with Burning Hands. Result: Barbecued Rat.
The party decides, now battered and bloody, that there's really not enough available healing. Still, they continue forward, taking things more cautiously. The halfling scouts out the main Kobold Lair, and the party decides that's definitely NOT where they want to go. They take the other branch.
The halfling scouts the other long passage towards areas 5 and 6. He gets 30' away when I remind him he can't see in the dark. Pulling out his bullseye lantern, he keeps it hooded for the 5' radius shadowy light. Still, stealth is basically out the window at this point. He gets to the room at the end, and I have him roll Perception.
Rolls a 6. Which is a 10. Which is a 9, after the -1 modifier. Which means the kobolds have surprise and we try out this nutty "-20 modifier." The kobolds go first, and the three Dragonshields (all with Advantage) cut down the rogue before he can do anything.
Hearing the dying halfling's screams, the rest of the party hustles down the hallway. Frenzied fighting ensues. The Fighter drops. The Paladin drops to a flurry of thrown daggers. The Chieftain takes apart the Priest.
The Wizard, who'd been dropping a kobold every round, decides about now is a good time to escape.
-=-=-=-=-=-
So, back in the throne room of King Monarch Plotdevice, a new set of largely identical heroes (apart from a slightly wiser and dumber halfling rogue) set forth to challenge a group of now better-fed, better-equipped, and overall wealthier kobolds...
Long story short - as if that's possible at this point - they took down the re-stocked guards at the entryway much more smoothly at this point. Using a combination of an oil-filled hallway and some molotov cocktails, they defeated the Dragonshields and the Chieftain. (That was the first fight, btw, where the Fighter was significantly useful.) We ended there, because even with smart preparation, they were basically wiped of healing again.
-=-=-=-=-=-
The overall group impression was mixed. It felt nearly identical to running Basic or AD&D, to me, which is fine, I guess. The players were also somewhat lukewarm, even those who really enjoy pre-4e D&D. I mean, yes, we had a good time - but that's a low bar when we're sitting around playing D&D. It's basically a minimum expectation.
Plusses and minuses...
(+) Everyone liked the splitting movement.
(+) The combats were quick and organically integrated to exploration, which is one of the things I miss when I'm running 4e.
(+) Everyone liked the at-will spells, even if "I detect magic" got annoying.
(+) The Paladin player liked his Healing Word spell.
(+) The Rogue liked his minimum skill roll, but needed better scouting capabilities.
(0) Everyone was okay with the reduced action economy.
(0) We had fun, and it felt like D&D. (Might be a +, but for us it's a baseline!)
(0) I generally like Advantage/Disadvantage, but it's super-annoying with mobs of, say, 18 rats who only hit on a 20. I had advantage a lot given the nature of these monsters, and my players rarely did.
(-) 4/5 players felt there wasn't enough healing to go around, including the two clerics who basically were relegated to Healbot status. (At least they had some good attacks anyway.) They both said that just maxing all the healing die rolls (spells & hit dice) would probably be about enough to help. The last - the Wizard - thought HPs were pretty good, and it encourages caution. But given that he was out of the way of most attacks, his perspective may be skewed!
(-) Combat is very swingy at this level. Possibly a bit too swingy.
(-) The exceptionally weak control abilities of the front-liners meant everyone was vulnerable to skirmishers. There has to be, at a minimum, opportunity attacks. Even if just a Fighter gets to make them, it would go a long way towards making things go better. In corridors it was fine, but in the final near-TPK, I kept having my Kobolds avoid the Fighters to go after the Wizard and Priest.
(-) The Fighter player was fairly dissatisfied with the rules at the end, but I think that might be in part because they were fighting Kobolds and he was basically a living Magic Missile that gets to take hits in melee. He was so low on HP he was scared to engage with monsters.
(-) The Rogue was kind of tepid in a fight. Sneaking got him nothing. This almost certainly improves itself at higher levels.
(-) With such low modifiers, the system as a whole seems too swingy at this stage.
...and that's about it!
-O
Alright, for some background... I've been playing D&D for around 30 years now, since the ripe age of 7 when my Magic User got eaten by a gelatinous cube in the Caves of Chaos. I've played D&D of each edition more or less as it came out, and am currently running a 4e Dark Sun game using some 2e supplements. My favorite editions right now - both of which I've run fairly recently - are 1e and 4e, and I'm looking for a reason I'd want to play 5e instead of either of the above.
So that's who I am. My group is a mixture of casual and serious players, all of whom have also been gaming for quite a while. We got together last night to roll some dice and kill monsters and, incidentally, playtest 5e.
Wanting to get to the action, we started in the private study of King Monarch Plotdevice. Vile evil humanoids had kidnapped his son, Prince Macguffin Plotdevice, who had been out hunting alone, as those in the Plotdevice line are wont to do. He offered the party 100 gp each to find and rescue the Prince - a nondescript man, who looks like just sort of a person, you know?
Traveling to the Caves, the party decided (using a handy Player's Map I found online) to try the first cave on the lowest level on the right. Cave A. Kobold City.
The Rogue decides to look around for tracks, and is pleased to discover that the lowest he can roll on a skill die is 10. He is somewhat less pleased to discover that his Wisdom modifier is a -1. Still, he rolls sufficiently well to find the "scaly, clawed footprints" ... and to notice a kobold pretending to be just part of the foliage.
At that point, the battle was joined, at a distance of 30'. No minis; we're doing the whole narrative bit. The kobolds' initiative is low. I'm expecting a slaughter.
- The Wizard drops a kobold with a magic missile. (The first of very many. This will be a theme of the night.)
- The Fighter moves up and readies his action, waiting for someone to get into melee with him.
- The halfling hides.
- The "Paladin" decides that valor is the better part of stupidity, closes the distance with the kobolds, and calls to the glory of Moradin to make his aim true. Moradin, being on a coffee break, chooses that he will roll a 2.
Seven kobolds then mob the priest. Now, looking at the kobolds' stat blocks, I noticed something funny. Basically, they rock with daggers, but are hopeless with their supposed main weapon, their spears. Being a kind and generous DM, I proceed to ignore the spears and hack the dwarf down with with daggers.
He's got a good AC, but the first attack is a crit. So's the fourth. All told, four kobolds hit him with daggers, despite his 18 AC, dropping him to -1.
- The human priest tries to Radiant Lance one kobold, misses, and moves up to get closer to Cure Light Wounds range.
Round 2.
- The Wizard drops a kobold with Magic Missile
- The Fighter crits, which would be a lot more impressive if he didn't kill a kobold even on a miss. This importantly brings the kobolds' numbers back down to size.
- The Rogue uses his Advantage and takes out a kobold.
- The kobolds, now down to four, change tactics. Three of them grab the downed dwarf and drag him into their tunnel, yelling for reinforcements. The last makes a valiant stand and hits the Fighter for 6 damage.
- The Priest uses Radiant Lance again. Misses.
Round 3
- The wizard drops a kobold with Magic Missile.
- The fighter runs into the corridor and wrestles the dwarf's body away from the kobolds easily.
- The Rogue drops a kobold with a sling bullet.
- There's only one kobold left, but the six reinforcements (all jumping the corner of the pit) mob the Fighter. Outnumbering him, they bring him to (I think) 2 hp or so.
From here there was a lot of mop-up work. The kobolds were whittled down to size, but the toll was heavy. 14 kobolds, and the two main "tanks" were low on HPs for the rest of the day.
They take their short rest, and are disgruntled at the random Hit Dice. The clerics decide they can't use their spells for anything other than healing, and the party - more cautiously - advances.
Both dwarves in the front rank miraculously make their Dex saves and avoid running headlong into the pit. The paladin immediately runs out and grabs a tree branch, and while he's incommunicado, the rats swarm towards the party.
Initiative. Everyone rolls well, except the rats and the Wizard. The Wizard is dead last. All the other party members form up outside the cave, with the Fighter trying to hide at first. The Wizard gets swarmed by rats.
This was an annoying fight. The Advantage rules required me to make 18 separate paired 2d20 die rolls, for a maximum of 1 point of damage on a hit. Long story short, the Wizard blasts them with Burning Hands. Result: Barbecued Rat.
The party decides, now battered and bloody, that there's really not enough available healing. Still, they continue forward, taking things more cautiously. The halfling scouts out the main Kobold Lair, and the party decides that's definitely NOT where they want to go. They take the other branch.
The halfling scouts the other long passage towards areas 5 and 6. He gets 30' away when I remind him he can't see in the dark. Pulling out his bullseye lantern, he keeps it hooded for the 5' radius shadowy light. Still, stealth is basically out the window at this point. He gets to the room at the end, and I have him roll Perception.
Rolls a 6. Which is a 10. Which is a 9, after the -1 modifier. Which means the kobolds have surprise and we try out this nutty "-20 modifier." The kobolds go first, and the three Dragonshields (all with Advantage) cut down the rogue before he can do anything.
Hearing the dying halfling's screams, the rest of the party hustles down the hallway. Frenzied fighting ensues. The Fighter drops. The Paladin drops to a flurry of thrown daggers. The Chieftain takes apart the Priest.
The Wizard, who'd been dropping a kobold every round, decides about now is a good time to escape.
-=-=-=-=-=-
So, back in the throne room of King Monarch Plotdevice, a new set of largely identical heroes (apart from a slightly wiser and dumber halfling rogue) set forth to challenge a group of now better-fed, better-equipped, and overall wealthier kobolds...
Long story short - as if that's possible at this point - they took down the re-stocked guards at the entryway much more smoothly at this point. Using a combination of an oil-filled hallway and some molotov cocktails, they defeated the Dragonshields and the Chieftain. (That was the first fight, btw, where the Fighter was significantly useful.) We ended there, because even with smart preparation, they were basically wiped of healing again.
-=-=-=-=-=-
The overall group impression was mixed. It felt nearly identical to running Basic or AD&D, to me, which is fine, I guess. The players were also somewhat lukewarm, even those who really enjoy pre-4e D&D. I mean, yes, we had a good time - but that's a low bar when we're sitting around playing D&D. It's basically a minimum expectation.
Plusses and minuses...
(+) Everyone liked the splitting movement.
(+) The combats were quick and organically integrated to exploration, which is one of the things I miss when I'm running 4e.
(+) Everyone liked the at-will spells, even if "I detect magic" got annoying.
(+) The Paladin player liked his Healing Word spell.
(+) The Rogue liked his minimum skill roll, but needed better scouting capabilities.
(0) Everyone was okay with the reduced action economy.
(0) We had fun, and it felt like D&D. (Might be a +, but for us it's a baseline!)
(0) I generally like Advantage/Disadvantage, but it's super-annoying with mobs of, say, 18 rats who only hit on a 20. I had advantage a lot given the nature of these monsters, and my players rarely did.
(-) 4/5 players felt there wasn't enough healing to go around, including the two clerics who basically were relegated to Healbot status. (At least they had some good attacks anyway.) They both said that just maxing all the healing die rolls (spells & hit dice) would probably be about enough to help. The last - the Wizard - thought HPs were pretty good, and it encourages caution. But given that he was out of the way of most attacks, his perspective may be skewed!
(-) Combat is very swingy at this level. Possibly a bit too swingy.
(-) The exceptionally weak control abilities of the front-liners meant everyone was vulnerable to skirmishers. There has to be, at a minimum, opportunity attacks. Even if just a Fighter gets to make them, it would go a long way towards making things go better. In corridors it was fine, but in the final near-TPK, I kept having my Kobolds avoid the Fighters to go after the Wizard and Priest.
(-) The Fighter player was fairly dissatisfied with the rules at the end, but I think that might be in part because they were fighting Kobolds and he was basically a living Magic Missile that gets to take hits in melee. He was so low on HP he was scared to engage with monsters.
(-) The Rogue was kind of tepid in a fight. Sneaking got him nothing. This almost certainly improves itself at higher levels.
(-) With such low modifiers, the system as a whole seems too swingy at this stage.
...and that's about it!
-O
