Pathfinder 1E airwalkrr's Rise of the Runelords AE PBP Reborn! [OOC]

on players roll all the dice, does the attack from the opponent acts like a dc to overcome with a defense check, the + = to all the pluses that bring it above he base of 10?

The peculular case of Dr. Jeckyl nd Mr. Hyde

Notes and thoughts
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I like the will check for stressful situation. I was thinking only one class or the other, just not quite sure which to do yet. thinking . . . . . . I am actually liking Alchemist [beastmorph] more and more. He would be morphing more and more into the
incredible Mr Hyde. It says: "Beastmorphs study the anatomy of monsters . . . . ." so he has tried to fuze the
strength of some monstrous humanoid into his physical form, but ended up totally changing himself. Over time the mutagens accumulate and trigger spontaneously Dr. Jekyll - Alchemist 1 [Beastmorph] Human scientist Role: As an arcanist with melee and short ranged attack as minor abilities Description: Dr. Jekyll is a young, slight man with a high degree of intelligence in his eyes. He wears an overcoat with a belt and bandolier underneath. His clothing under that is simple and utilitarian shirt and trousers. When seen in armor it is of the boiled leather variety, though it is usually stained and burned from his various forms of lab work.
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Dr. Jeckyl - Alchemist 1 [Beastmorpher]

History: it started as a research experiment. That was all it was. Master Anatomist Jekyll would pay for bodies of creatures, he would dissect them and document what he found. In turn his research was funded by others who would need information on particular creatures. His wife and child were assisstive as much as they could, she with the business as well as keeping the home estate in the black, young Jekyll with the scientific documentation. Een in his spare time young Jekyll would work on a second copy of all of his father's books on creatures, as well as working his own work on laboratory discovery. Young Doctor Jekyll wanted to discover how to morph into a creature, to tap into bestial strength. It was not out of curiosity, it was out of necessity he did this. He only had a few friends and one of those was bullied and beaten many times. He had a breakthrough late one night with a solution. It was an extract of different glands of a few very strong and vicious creatures. he drank it at the first opportunity after he saw his childhood friend get attacked which he took that as a good enough reason to attack. He morphed into an amalagrahm of the creatures from which the extracts were made of, but the bestial nature of that creature he became affected his psyche. His reasoning, his memory was heightened however his will, his reasoning of right and wrong, was forever damaged. Furthermore he would have memory black outs. He would wake in odd places, sometimes his clothing would be torn to shreds. His friend was unconscious when he was being rescued, so he has no recollection of that time of transformation, so he did not get to find out what happened. He was also running out of excuses as to what has been happening, so the young doctor moved away. to a larger city. somewhere he could hide. New associate he can be with to hide from his past. lets see if this will work, he reconciles. But he still wakes after black outs. He does not know what happens, except that something seems about to happen. What is wrong??? He would ask his father, but he is too embarrassed to contact them now.

Scott DeWar said:

on players roll all the dice, does the attack from the opponent acts like a dc to overcome with a defense check, the + = to all the pluses that bring it above he base of 10?

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Yes, more or less. Enemies have an attack score equal to 11 + their attack bonus (as well as the crit range/mod if other than 20/x2 which is the default). Whenever I have an enemy make an attack, I'll simply list the attack score and the potential damage dealt. On the attacked player's turn, the player will make a defense roll. Note that crit ranges are reversed, so a natural 1 on a defense roll always results in a player character hit and critical threat. A longsword would threaten on a defense roll of 1 or 2, and so on.

Scott DeWar said:

Notes and thoughts

I like the will check for stressful situation. I was thinking only one class or the other, just not quite sure which to do yet. thinking . . . . . .

I am actually liking Alchemist [beastmorph] more and more. He would be morphing more and more into the incredible Mr Hyde. It says: "Beastmorphs study the anatomy of monsters . . . . ." so he has tried to fuze the strength of some monstrous humanoid into his physical form, but ended up totally changing himself. Over time the mutagens accumulate and trigger spontaneously

The potions are not as an alchemist's mutagens, just that he 'drinks' the material component of his summoner spell. If there is a cost, then it is for an expensive reagent or something. As he drinks these potions they accumulate in his system causing an occasional transformation into Hyde-Hulk during times of stress.

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Since the concept only involves one character class unlike my initial impression, the Will save wouldn't be necessary. If so we could simply use it as a drawback, granting the character a bonus trait in exchange (preferably not something counter to the concept like a trait that gives a bonus to Will saves). The DC would be low, something like DC 10.

Sounds good. We used the 'players make all the rolls" on the TT game I played in Columbia Mo. It works very well.I am going o start making the character. You know I was thinking. If We very the dc where It gets more difficult with the increased consumption of mutagens, it would mean the more powerful mutagens cause a higher dc. what do you think?

Nuko Wrag, half-orc wizard (conjurer) 1

[sblock=stats]
Str 14/+2
Dex 14/+2
Con 14/+2
Int 18/+4
Wis 10/+0
Cha 10/+0

Init +2; move 30'; darkvision 60'; CMB +2; CMD 14; HD 1d6+3; hp 9
Defense 12 (+2 dex), touch 12, flat-footed 12
Saves: Fort +3, Reflex +3, Will +3; Concentration +5; align: CG
Languages: Common, Orc, Abyssal, Draconic, Giant, Goblin

Critical defense check bonus +2
Critical attack bonus +0
Magic check: +4 + spell level

attack MW greataxe +4 melee (1d12+3, crit 20/x3)
or acid dart +2 ranged touch (1d6 acid, crit 20/x2); 7/day, 30' range

Trait: Giant Slayer (+1 Bluff, Perception, Sense Motive; +1 attack and damage vs giants)
Feats: Scribe Scroll, Weapon Focus (greataxe)

The wizard's class skills are Appraise (Int), Craft (Int), Fly (Dex), Knowledge (all) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Ranks per Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Skills (ranks/total): Appraise 1/8, Bluff 0/1, Intimidate 0/2, Knowledge (arcana) 1/8, Knowledge (local) 1/8, Spellcraft 1/8; Perception 1/2, Sense Motive 1/2

Sacred Tattoo: Tattoos, piercings, and ritual scarification are sacred markings to many half-orcs. Half-orcs with this racial trait gain a +1 luck bonus on all saving throws. This racial trait replaces the orc ferocity racial trait.

Weapon Familiarity: Half-orcs are proficient with greataxes and falchions and treat any weapon with the word “orc” in its name as a martial weapon.

Arcane School: Conjuration
Opposition Schools: Evocation, Necromancy; takes 2 spell slots to prepare

Summoner's Charm (Su): Whenever you cast a conjuration (summoning) spell, increase the duration by a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum 1). At 20th level, you can change the duration of all summon monster spells to permanent. You can have no more than one summon monster spell made permanent in this way at one time. If you designate another summon monster spell as permanent, the previous spell immediately ends.

Acid Dart (Sp): As a standard action you can unleash an acid dart targeting any foe within 30 feet as a ranged touch attack. The acid dart deals 1d6 points of acid damage + 1 for every two wizard levels you possess. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier. This attack ignores spell resistance.

Arcane Bond (Ex or Sp): MW greataxe

Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one at no cost. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always masterwork quality. Weapons acquired at 1st level are not made of any special material. If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be held in one hand. If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly.

A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the wizard has in his spellbook and is capable of casting, even if the spell is not prepared. This spell is treated like any other spell cast by the wizard, including casting time, duration, and other effects dependent on the wizard's level. This spell cannot be modified by metamagic feats or other abilities. The bonded object cannot be used to cast spells from the wizard's opposition schools (see arcane school).

Spells/day: 3 0th, 2+1 1st; DC 14 + spell level
Typical spells prepared (#=conjuration)
0: daze (Will neg DC 14), detect magic, message
1: color spray (Will neg DC 15, 15' cone), shield (1 min), mage armor# (1 hr)

A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells (except those from his prohibited schools, if any; see Arcane Schools) plus three 1st-level spells of his choice. The wizard also selects a number of additional 1st-level spells equal to his Intelligence modifier to add to the spellbook.

Spells known: (#=conjuration); 0th-all except opposition schools (Evocation, Necromancy);
1: adhesive spittle# (Adv Class Guide; 15' range, Reflex DC 15), charm person, color spray, feather fall, grease#, identify, mage armor# (1 hr), shield (1 min), silent image, snapdragon fireworks

equip: 70 gp - 3 gp for Cost of Living (1st month)

Kit, Wizard's: Price 21 gp; Weight 21 lbs.
This kit includes a backpack, a bedroll, a belt pouch, a flint and steel, ink, an inkpen, an iron pot, a mess kit, soap, a spell component pouch, torches (10), trail rations (5 days), and a waterskin. The kit does not contain a spellbook because a wizard begins play with a spellbook and does not need to purchase one.

Costs for spells (borrowing + writing): 15 gp each for 3 1st level: feather fall, identify, snapdragon fireworks

Coins: 1 gp[/sblock]

[sblock=Description]Nuko Wrag grew up in Rogan, a small settlement in the hills which contained a mix of humans, half-orcs, and some full orcs. He was different from the others; studious, he was bullied as a child, but proved himself strong enough to win respect. When giants destroyed the town, he trained harder, hoping for revenge. Recently he heard rumors of giant activity and he headed to Sandpoint, intending to help in its defense if it were attacked.

When Nuko was born, he had a stillborn twin that was named Duko. Nuko believes that parallel universes exist and he sometimes thinks about what might have happened if both twins were healthy or if he were the stillborn one and Duko had lived.[/sblock]

[sblock=pic] [/sblock]

I don't doubt that this'll be a good game, and house rules are primarily a DM call, but just to let you know I am not a fan of the house rules. Players rolling all of the dice can slow the game down (more so for PBP than for face to face); for example, the DM says that a monster attacks PC#1, so now we have to wait for Player #1 to roll the attack to see what happens instead of the DM just rolling it. As for armor as DR, I suspect it's not well balanced. As for hero points, it's a bit too gamist for my taste. But again ... I can live with it and we'll have fun

Hmmm. I was assuming that "all the dice" simply meant we'd make the monsters' defensive rolls against our attacks so that we wouldn't have to wait for the GM to resolve those - which would speed the game..

I actually like the idea of armor as DR - IMO, it makes armor do what it should. Don't know about the balance question, but if needed it could be tweaked.

Like kinem, I'm looking forward to a fun game, and to finally actually playing through this AP!

Scott DeWar said:

Sounds good. We used the 'players make all the rolls" on the TT game I played in Columbia Mo. It works very well.I am going o start making the character. You know I was thinking. If We very the dc where It gets more difficult with the increased consumption of mutagens, it would mean the more powerful mutagens cause a higher dc. what do you think?

Click to expand...

Perhaps rather than keeping track of the number of mutagens, the DC could simply scale with the number of discoveries spent on the mutagen, say 10 + 1 per mutagen discovery. Which role were you thinking of for this character by the way?

kinem said:

I don't doubt that this'll be a good game, and house rules are primarily a DM call, but just to let you know I am not a fan of the house rules. Players rolling all of the dice can slow the game down (more so for PBP than for face to face); for example, the DM says that a monster attacks PC#1, so now we have to wait for Player #1 to roll the attack to see what happens instead of the DM just rolling it. As for armor as DR, I suspect it's not well balanced. As for hero points, it's a bit too gamist for my taste. But again ... I can live with it and we'll have fun

Click to expand...

Nuko looks good. I like the description reference you tossed in to Duko. As for the house rules, you do bring up a valid point or two. I was initially thinking of the benefits of Players Roll All The Dice (PRATD) as opposed to the negatives. The original purpose for using PRATD was because I thought it might speed things up in some ways. However, your post has made me reconsider the validity of my assumption. This is something I will have to think over.

However, I should point out that another aspect I was considering for PBP is that in the majority of situations, I will be using a single "enemy" initiative to keep combat moving more quickly. An unfortunate side effect of not splitting up enemies into groups is that they all act at once. In tabletop defense rolls and such would be rolled as needed. In PBP players can take their turns (and thus make their defensive rolls) when they like. I was actually thinking that the enemy attacks would not be resolved until the respective player's turn when he/she had the chance to roll the defensive rolls. This actually allows for things like readied actions for defensive/healing purposes in PBP a little easier to accomplish. Say orc 1, orc 2, and orc 3 have declared attacks against the fighter who is low on hit points. The fighter doesn't have to make the defensive rolls until his turn in PBP (again, this is different in tabletop as rolls are made on the spot there), so the cleric could ready an action to heal the fighter if he falls to 0 hit points or below, allowing the cleric to conserve his spells if the readied action isnt triggered. Whereas if I had made all the attacks, the first dropping the fighter to -5 and the second to -14 (which would result in death), the fighter would be dead because the cleric might not have readied the action because he didnt know all three orcs were going to charge the fighter. It's just an example of what was going through my mind so you can see where I was coming from. In reality, you won't have to wait for everyone to resolve their defensive rolls before acting. Defensive rolls will be resolved as soon as the player being attacked takes his action.

Regarding Armor as Damage Reduction, I have heard mixed reviews. As I pointed out, the main reason I want to use this is because I think in the majority of situations it will speed up combat by having fewer misses. Or at the very least speed up the perception of action, especially at low levels. It's rather boring in a PBP game when a week goes by with low-level characters rolling poorly along with the monsters and essentially nothing happens besides perhaps a few 5-foot steps. Damage scales well with level in PF and I believe there is the potential for this to really work in favor of the PCs in a lot of ways, such as fighting brutes with high natural armor. Even if you don't have magic weapons, casting the magic weapon spell could almost make it a touch attack if the monster has no innate DR. I don't really know if it's well-balanced or not, because I've never used it. But as I said, this is something we can adjust as time goes on, in small steps as needed. I think it has the potential to make combat in PBP a little more exciting by ensuring more hits, even if they do less damage. And finally, PBP is the perfect place to test this because we have the time to have an ongoing discussion about how well the system is working in the middle of a battle and make plans to adjust things for the next battle without going through an entire 4-5 hour game session with an elephant in the room that remains simply because it would be inconvenient to stop the game session and hash out how to rework the rules instead of making plans to change it next week.

As for Hero Points, all I can say is that I am a fan of giving the PCs the proverbial "Get Out of Jail Free" card every once in a while. It will also help speed things along when your group is stumped or having trouble with a difficult encounter. PBP games thrive by keeping the game moving. Hero Points facilitate that. I've been using the similar Action Points system in my weekly tabletop game for years and never regretted it. It gives the PCs quite an edge, and is certainly gamist, but it seems to make the game more enjoyable when you can turn a failed save versus finger of death into a success or a missed attack on a weakened monster into a killing blow. (Also if you notice, PRATD gives you more places to use Hero Points, which was a synergy I noticed and was happy to introduce.)

Each of the house rules you've mentioned has been added specifically because I believe it has the potential to speed up game play in a slow medium like PBP. I'll consider your points about PRATD for a while. Still almost two weeks before planned launch time.

Mowgli said:

Hmmm. I was assuming that "all the dice" simply meant we'd make the monsters' defensive rolls against our attacks so that we wouldn't have to wait for the GM to resolve those - which would speed the game..

Click to expand...

And I was actually cogitating the notion of giving players some matter of choice on which monsters attacked them in narrative style so that an exchange of blows between PC and monster could be resolved with a single player post rather than player-GM-player, perhaps freeing me to spend more time on the actions of more "important" monsters. This is just the germ of an idea though and not ready for full implementation. But I thought I'd let you guys know where my brain is at.

airwalkrr said:

The drawback and trait trade-off sounds fine to me. Although it looks like kinem is going with a wizard instead so you might not need to be as arcaney.

If storing a link, I would ask that you see if there is a way to display a snapshot or something of that nature in the thread so I don't necessarily need to follow the link. I like being able to look at all character sheets on one page. If you're linking to something like a jpg of a pdf snapshot, it would probably preferable to put it inside a a spoiler block to reduce load times.

Magnimarian Streetwise: You know the streets of Magnimar's well-traveled areas and are keen on picking out dangers and foreigners less likely to spot pick-pockets. You gain a +2 trait bonus to Diplomacy checks to gather information, Sleight of Hand, and Perception checks in the Dockway and Underbridge districts of Magnimar and half this bonus in other districts of Magnimar.

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Thanks.
Either way, I think we still need the trapfinding covered and a wizard doesn't change that.

However, the need for a controller type bard with a wizard in the party is different. Without the melee summoner, we are now lighter on the front line and my bard's tactics will be less effective. A fighter holding his own at the front works well, and the dwarven cleric could be a melee type too. Perhaps I should tweak to be more of an archer bard instead because we will be short on damage dealing. I will have to think on that one.

airwalkrr said:

I just realized a couple things are missing from your character sheet, [MENTION=88649]perrinmiller[/MENTION], although it's understandable you overlooked it since they are from variant rule. Be sure to calculate and add these:

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I added those in now.

airwalkrr said:

As for the house rules, you do bring up a valid point or two. I was initially thinking of the benefits of Players Roll All The Dice (PRATD) as opposed to the negatives. The original purpose for using PRATD was because I thought it might speed things up in some ways. However, your post has made me reconsider the validity of my assumption. This is something I will have to think over.

However, I should point out that another aspect I was considering for PBP is that in the majority of situations, I will be using a single "enemy" initiative to keep combat moving more quickly. An unfortunate side effect of not splitting up enemies into groups is that they all act at once. In tabletop defense rolls and such would be rolled as needed. In PBP players can take their turns (and thus make their defensive rolls) when they like. I was actually thinking that the enemy attacks would not be resolved until the respective player's turn when he/she had the chance to roll the defensive rolls.

Click to expand...

I am not sure where you are speeding things up.

With the regular rules, providing such things like ACs and HPs allow for players to self resolve. That speeds things up. If a player were to roll the saves for the foe after a spell, that would speed things up.

But Defensive Rolls appear to only apply to trying to reduce a critical hit to a normal one from what I read. To keep things moving faster, it would actually make more sense for the DM to roll the PC's Crit Defense Roll instead, wouldn't it?