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D&D 5E Goliaths WebDM Misses the Mark, but Sparks My Curiosity

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
But, remember, in the Medieval times, "Adult" could be as young as 13. And since the write up also includes: "Their hearts are infused with the cold regard of their frigid realm, leaving each goliath with the responsibility to earn a place in the tribe or die trying." you are very likely to end up less with "child care" and more with "child training" like with Sparta. Where male children were not fed and expected to steal and eventually kill for their food. And if caught, were beaten bloody and left without food. After all, they must be strong, and the strong do not rely on others.

DnD-land isn’t Medieval nor earlier Europe, and Goliaths aren’t Spartans.

Why add more grimdark with crap like making the youth steal their food and whatever?

This is just a really really weird line of discussion. 🤷‍♂️
 

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Chaosmancer

Legend
DnD-land isn’t Medieval nor earlier Europe, and Goliaths aren’t Spartans.

Why add more grimdark with crap like making the youth steal their food and whatever?

This is just a really really weird line of discussion. 🤷‍♂️

The stealing and stuff was just referencing what the Spartans did historically.

But, on the age thing. I read the FR Wiki and in a bit I think they took from the 3.5 lore, it mentions that Goliaths are expected to start contributing to the tribe by age 10. So, the "Adult is a lot younger than you might think" part which was the main thrust, could still stay intact.

Still, it is weird. I'm just showing the RAW, I don't like it or keep it, but I keep getting pushback that it isn't the RAW. 🤷‍♂️
 

gyor

Legend
How does adding a metasetting help you run a setting? Wouldn't it just add to the amount you need to learn before you can start?

By metasetting I get the basics needed to play in all the favourite D&D settings. Like Defiling rules for Darksun. Obviously not in-depth looks, but just what fans need to get started.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
The stealing and stuff was just referencing what the Spartans did historically.

But, on the age thing. I read the FR Wiki and in a bit I think they took from the 3.5 lore, it mentions that Goliaths are expected to start contributing to the tribe by age 10. So, the "Adult is a lot younger than you might think" part which was the main thrust, could still stay intact.

Still, it is weird. I'm just showing the RAW, I don't like it or keep it, but I keep getting pushback that it isn't the RAW. 🤷‍♂️
You keep going past the raw, when you don’t need to. Thus the push back.
 


Meh, If they are going to be called goliath, give them gliding wings.

download (1).gif


Suddenly some of their powers make much more sense.
 


Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
You keep going past the raw, when you don’t need to. Thus the push back.
To be fair, there's quite a bit of not-RAW discussion about additional or alternate fluff for goliaths in this thread, quite a bit of which you've liked. It appears that it's not adding to RAW that's the problem, it's amplifying the bits you don't like that gets the push back.

Reading this thread, I'm struck at just how much work is being put into making goliaths more interesting past the RAW, which the OP was making the argument they're interesting enough already. There's a fair amount of irony, here.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
By metasetting I get the basics needed to play in all the favourite D&D settings. Like Defiling rules for Darksun. Obviously not in-depth looks, but just what fans need to get started.

So, you just want a compendium of rules for various setting specific things? I don't think I would like that, much prefer setting specific rules to stay in the setting books where they will be easier to find.

You keep going past the raw, when you don’t need to. Thus the push back.

Sure, I'm going beyond what is explicitly stated, but I'm not just making things up. I'm following the logic of exactly what it says and assuming there are not caveats like "this only applies to adults over the age of 21".


Goliaths are a no-good, boring badwrongfun race.

I don't like them, and therefore, they're objectively awful. Hurr durr.

Don't think anyone has said this at all. Sure, some people have claimed they are boring, but no one has said they are a bad fit for the game.

Heck, all I'm saying is that their RAW lore is terrible, and considering Half-Orcs from the past I don't think that is all that extreme a thing to point out about a race. I don't mind them at all as a mechanical race, and have reworked them in my home games to be actually pretty interesting. Reworking them again because I'm breaking my old world and starting over, but such is life.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
So, you just want a compendium of rules for various setting specific things? I don't think I would like that, much prefer setting specific rules to stay in the setting books where they will be easier to find.



Sure, I'm going beyond what is explicitly stated, but I'm not just making things up. I'm following the logic of exactly what it says and assuming there are not caveats like "this only applies to adults over the age of 21".
Well, here’s the thing, you could just as easily look at all the text you used to suggest that they’d be brutal to their young in order to make them stronger like the Spartans, and instead go the other direction. They expect the young to contribute once physically able, like practically every society in RL history until less than 100 years ago, but don’t hold them to the harsh standards described in the “survival of the fittest” section until they become adults. But for some reason you’ve gotten on a track where you seem to need to make them out to be as grim dark as you possibly can in order to convince us that they’re dark.

You also could go the other way on the details of leaving behind the “weak” and injured, as I’ve already described. The way you’ve been going isn’t a necessary extrapolation, it’s just one possible direction among many.

Heck, all I'm saying is that their RAW lore is terrible.
Their lore is bad in a few parts. As I said at the beginning of this exchange, you can drop the worst couple bits and they work fine. The competition, focus on accomplishment, fair play, need to be free to wander, feeling at home in the most remote regions of the world, being most at home in a world where survival is actively difficult, etc are all interesting enough to hang a culture on.

Even leaving behind those who can’t keep up doesn’t have to be brütal and grim-dark. Literally just change it to a scenario where the infirm and old and too injured to keep up and whatnot are given basic supplies and sent to live with the lowlanders, next time the tribe is down that way. This is still harsh but not brutally so, they just exile you if you cant keep up, but they do it in a way that isn’t likely to kill you.
Or create clan-holds where the tribes and clans come together seasonally to trade and share news and arrange marriages, and seek council. The disabled, infirm, elderly, etc, live there, and are still expected to excel at something, to keep as fit as their body allows, and to provide utility to the tribe/clan.

It’s a small change overall, but makes them a less ridiculous society, while keeping what makes them unique and interesting.
 

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