D&D 5E New Unearthed Arcana Today: Giant Themed Class Options and Feats

AcererakTriple6 said:

By my count, there are about 70 monster stat blocks in Fizban's Treasury of Dragons.

If there were a Giant-focused monster book similar to Fizban's and it reprinted literally all of the non-M:tG variant Giants/Giantkin that would be:

• 6 True Giant stat blocks (Hill Giant Mouth of Grolantor, Frost Giant Everlasting One, Fire Giant Dreadnought, etc)
• 4 Ogres of War
• 5 Mutated Trolls
• 2 Verbeeg

That's just 17 additional monsters. The bestiary would need over 50 more giant-themed monsters in order to just match how many dragon-themed ones are in Fizban's Treasury of Dragons.

Is that really possible given the history of D&D? Have there ever been that many Giant-related monsters in one edition before? Even if the book were to bring back Titans as bigger versions of the True Giants, that doesn't get them anywhere near the amount required to get close to Fizban's.

I'll admit that Fizban's bestiary isn't just Giants, it includes some humanoids that worship Bahamut, Tiamat, and Sardior, and also stuff like Hoard Scarabs/Mimics. Maybe this book kind of book could include undead Giants (like the Frost Giant Zombie from Wildemount)? And some Annam worshipping priests or Giant-touched NPC stats. But, still, I think that Fizban's had way more to work with than a purely Giant-focused monster book.

The Player Option section could easily be the size of Fizban's, as could the Magic Item and Spells section, but the rest would be stretching it.

But D&D has had at least one Draconomicon in basically every edition, right? Giantcraft was just one book from one edition. About half the size of the typical D&D 5e book. And Giants haven't gotten a ton of additions through the editions on them like Dragons have.

Going off of the Forgotten Realms Wiki . . . there really aren't that many. Especially not when compared to Dragons. Seriously, go to the bottom of both of those articles and look at the section that compiles all Giantkin and Dragonkind into one spot. In my opinion, there are too many dragons from the history of D&D to even fit them all in a 5e book. Giants have the opposite problem. There's just over 30 of them from the history of D&D.

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Minigiant said:

It does. Buts it's still Ren-Medieval with Greco Mythic paint over it. The fighting, skills, and magic of the theme aren't elevated as the prominent styles of the setting vis mechanics.

I'm just a "if you are gonna do it, do it hard" guy

That's why to me, if I am going to do Giants, I'd make Super Strength rules and full on Rune rules.

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Blue said:

That you need to take the earlier feat in the chain before the later one absolutely is a requirement in this UA and the previous Dragonlance one. Sorry, this is wrong. It is the entire purpose of a requisite feat. I'm not really sure how someone could be so wrong on this that they felt comfortable enough to try to correct someone else.

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Blue said:

Yes, it is an issue of concept. If you have a feat that is too weak on purpose, it's a trap. Because that puts you weaker than eveyone else, with the only option to catch up is four levels later to lock you into a single choice, or take a normally balanced option and remain behind. 3.x has shown that feats like that are a bad design choice.

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Blue said:

Just to understand, you feel like the designers should be the ones to enforce theme, across all settings including homebrew, by locking off choice by rules, as opposed to the people playing at the table having the freedom to pick what is right for their character? (Without having to have the DM house rule to overrule the designers.)

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• I think 5e should have unencumbered feats (feats with no prerequisites, links, or "chains")
  • These should be the majority of feats.
• I think linked feats that enforce a theme could be interesting.
  • I do not think this should be all or even a majority of feats.
  • I think this could be an interesting way to add some mechanical heft to setting elements.
  • I think these could be a method to get a flavor of multiclassing without actually multiclassing.
  • I think you can create these without invalidating other options and player creativity.
• I do not think having a few feat chains in setting books or even few in the PHB is the designers controlling all themes in all settings in all games.
  • The feat chains are optional. You still have normal feats and ASI as an option.
  • You have every option you have now, + a few feat chain options.

Blue said:

They literally deny taking that feat except in certain cercumstances. Please keep your arguments to what is being presented in the UAs.

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Blue said:

Yes, limitations can spur creativity. To say that it creates more creativity by denying customization is not really a supportable statement though. Take the old Henry Ford quote: "A customer can have a car painted in any color, as long as it is black". That puts limitations on, but does not increase customization as delivered from the factory. And while you could repaint the car later, if the rules prevent you from taking the feat without the prerequisite, you just can't take the feat - it is blocked. This is basically hyperbole.

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Blue said:

Normal play generally ends before 12th. Both WotC surveys and DnDBeyond information gathering have said that. With standard progress (no special race/class extra), that's two feats - one at 4th and one at 8th. If you want to get the second feat, and you need the first feat - that's two feats. If you only get two feats and need two feats, that's all of your ASI/feat customization.

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doctorbadwolf said:

Okay.

ETA. If we want a greek mythos play demi-gods etc game, there are actual games made to just do that.

Theros still being DnD doesn't make it "ren-medieval" (which is a needlessly dismissive descriptor), though. If you play Theros as presented, it isn't going to feel medieval at all. It's going to feel greek.

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Urriak Uruk said:

(Giganticon?)

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Urriak Uruk said:

Chapter 5: Draconomicon (Giganticon?)
This one would be a mess for giants. There are 20 dragon types here, and we've got only five "major" giant types. Yes they could add a few more to buff this out, but are there 15 more giant types to match the quality of the major 5? We also need new giant lair maps, but this is material that Storm King's Thunder extensively covers already. Yes it could be reprinted, or original maps made, but it's this sort of retreading I doubt James Wyatt is interested in doing. This chapter is entirely difficult to recreate for giants, I'd expect a completely different format.

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Maxperson said:

Hill Giant
Stone Giant
Fire Giant
Cloud Giant
Frost Giant
Storm Giant
Mountain Giant
Fog Giant
Desert Giant
Ash Giant
Phaerlin Giant
Jungle Giant
Reef Giant
Firbolg Giant
Fomorian Giant
Verbeeg Giant
Voadkyn Giant
Craa'Ghoran Giant
Maur Giant
Island Giant
Ogre Giant
Eldritch Giant
Death Giant
Cyclops
Ogre
Half-Ogre
Merrow
Ice Spire Ogre
Ogrillon
Zakharan Ogre
Ogre Magi
Troll
Black Troll
Blood Troll
Cave Troll
Crystalline Troll
Deep Sea Troll
Desert Troll
Dire Troll
Fell Troll
Fire Troll
Forest Troll
Gray Troll
Ice Troll
Mountain Troll
Mur-Zhaguls
Phaze Troll
Pseudo-Troll
Rock Troll
Rot Troll
Scrag
Slime Troll
Spirit Troll
Stone Troll
Tree Troll
Troll Hunter
Two-Headed Troll
Venom troll
War Troll
Wasteland Troll
Thoul
Ettin

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Crimson Longinus said:

I mean IIRC, Theros doesn't even have era appropriate gear list. Having the same full plates and great swords in supposedly ancient Greek setting seems rather silly to me and if we would have some sort of Palaeolithic setting it would be even more blatantly absurd.

One thing I'd really want to see is some sort of setting builders handbook, that would properly address different setting premises and offer solid rules to support them. An yes, I mean more than "just reskin it" or even "here's a firearm chart." I mean proper alternative rules, class features even subclasses for various themes and techlevels.

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