D&D General No More Baldur's Gate From Larion: Team Is 'Elated'

Zehnseiter · Mar 22, 2024

Ruin Explorer said:
But he's implying heads will roll at WotC, not Larian.

Hell yes. There or at Hasbro.
You don't terminate things in public like Larian just did if things didn't went very very wrong behind the scenes. We are talking about the loss of a ton of money here. For all involved. Larian, Hasbro and WotC.

Depending on what else comes out there might be a reputation hit for a company coming as well. The BG fans will probably be rather pissed off when the news spreads and I doubt that Larian will the first target for their ire.

roger semerad · Mar 22, 2024

It's disappointing that we'll never get an expansion for BG3. I would have loved a higher level cap and more subclasses & races. In particular I really wanted an official playable Tabaxi. I'm sure someone will eventually make a mod for a Tabaxi, but I wonder how well it will integrate with the rest of the game. Oh well, in the end it's probably for the best. Adapting a Table top RPG is always a bit limiting. With all the experience with BG3 under their belt I'm interested in seeing what they do next, with full freedom to innovate the mechanics to work well as a video game.

Sorcerers Apprentice · Mar 22, 2024

I don't think wotc's business practices have much to do with Larian cancelling the BG3 DLC, it sounds more like the development just wasn't working out. The team would not have been "elated" at the decision if they were enjoying working on the project.

Ruin Explorer · Mar 22, 2024

Zehnseiter said:
Hell yes. There or at Hasbro.
You don't terminate things in public like Larian just did if things didn't went very very wrong behind the scenes. We are talking about the loss of a ton of money here. For all involved. Larian, Hasbro and WotC.

Yeah I don't think they actually will roll, though, because the responsibility here is too diffuse. Larian aren't angry with a specific individual but with the way WotC/Hasbro operate, and the people who make the decisions about that are far above being fired, indeed they probably have contracts that amount to, short of gross misconduct, you have to pay out millions to get them to leave.

Zardnaar · Mar 22, 2024

Ruin Explorer said:
It doesn't make sense and it's also not true.

Larian absolutely are an AAA studio, and made an AAA game. They have 400 people working for them, and they spent an extraordinary amount of money making the game. There's no definition of AAA studio they don't meet. What you seem to be confused by is that unlike most AAAs, they aren't owned by a separate publisher. Also they weren't an AAA studio until after they made enough money from DOS2 that they could start upstaffing.

But he's implying heads will roll at WotC, not Larian.

I'm saying Laian doesn't have the resources of a triple AAA studio. If BG3 was a bust Larians existence as a company would be in doubt. For EA its a tax write off.

Another example Ubisoft makes Assassins Creed and they can make a game every 2-3 years.

How? They have 7 studios working for them with 3-4 working on a game.

In BG3 terms they could have a studio working on each Act 1-3 with a fire Brigade one helping out as required and work on another game at the same time. Hell they could make 3 game at once.

That's what I meant by AAA. It's like comparing WotC to everyone else in the RPG space.

I suspect Larian will eventually get bought out and become another studio for said AAA.

Cergorach · Mar 22, 2024

Ruin Explorer said:
LOL. I am well aware they're Belgian - I'm talking about the vibe - there's completely un-funny brand of "humour" that Dutch people seem to specialize in that DOS1 absolutely has in spades.

I... I... I am offended! You just don't have any taste!

I suspect there's a golden mean between what you dislike about DOS and what you like in BG3, the problem is of course it could wind up pissing off everyone. But that is the risk they'll have to take imho. But even at DOS2 levels of success with a little bit of additional converts from BG3 they could a fine big business that keeps generating a pile of money to make their next game with. The slow and steady approach to game development keeps you independent and that is rare these days.

Ruin Explorer · Mar 22, 2024

Zardnaar said:
I'm saying Laian doesn't have the resources of a triple AAA studio.

They absolutely do now. They have more resources than most, because they have hundreds of millions, which is more than any but the top AAA franchises can get out of their publishers (and even then most of that goes on advertising, not development).

Zardnaar said:
That's what I meant by AAA. It's like comparing WotC to everyone else in the RPG space.

Then don't use the term "AAA", because that's not what it means - say "studios which have large publishers backing them". But you seem to think publishers are infinite money sources, and that's nonsense. If an AAA studio working for a publisher was making BG3, it'd probably have been pushed out the door two years ago, far more unfinished and incomplete than it actually was, or even quietly cancelled without even being announced.

Scribe · Mar 22, 2024

Ruin Explorer said:
LOL. I am well aware they're Belgian - I'm talking about the vibe - there's completely un-funny brand of "humour" that Dutch people seem to specialize in that DOS1 absolutely has in spades.

I didnt want to get into this as it is dangerous territory but.... lol

Zardnaar · Mar 22, 2024

Ruin Explorer said:
They absolutely do now. They have more resources than most, because they have hundreds of millions, which is more than any but the top AAA franchises can get out of their publishers (and even then most of that goes on advertising, not development).

Then don't use the term "AAA", because that's not what it means - say "studios which have large publishers backing them". But you seem to think publishers are infinite money sources, and that's nonsense. If an AAA studio working for a publisher was making BG3, it'd probably have been pushed out the door two years ago, far more unfinished and incomplete than it actually was, or even quietly cancelled without even being announced.

Hundreds of million these days do not make a AAA studio imho. It's billions.

EA has made 200 million odd games that tanked Anthe iirc was one.

If larian did that they not only wasted that money and tbe game development time 5-8 years they've also wasted the next 5 years or so until they produce the next game.

Larians hundreds of millions in that case start becoming an existential threat to the company.

The actual AAA developers can shrug that off go to he next project.

That's the difference between Larian and the AAA developers. BG3 is a hit its only one game though.

EA has been triple A since the early 90s.by comparison. Hell I was a teenager playing their games on the Genesis when they were actually cool.

That's the context I'm using AAA in. Larians next level down with Paradox Interactive tor example.

Ruin Explorer · Mar 22, 2024

Cergorach said:
But that is the risk they'll have to take imho.

In no way do they "have to" take that risk, I mean what the hell? That's like saying, because I used to drive a pickup truck, and now drive a sedan, my next car "has to" be a big SUV.

Why on earth would they "have to" make a game midway between DOS2 and BG3? That's nonsensical, surely?

If they're smart, they'll use the incredibly talented writers they hired to create a new IP, just like BioWare created Mass Effect and Dragon Age, rather than going back to Rivellon, which is basically a bad '90s grimdark fantasy heartbreaker kind of setting, and should be left in the '90s. Likewise employ their new, much more talented gameplay designers to design new gameplay, not to give us the yet another iteration of barrelmancy.

Sorcerers Apprentice said:
I don't think wotc's business practices have much to do with Larian cancelling the BG3 DLC, it sounds more like the development just wasn't working out. The team would not have been "elated" at the decision if they were enjoying working on the project.

You don't think the development team cares about WotC's practices? Because I strongly suspect they do. I suspect they care as much as Swen does, in some cases more, because they're actual workers, for the most part. You seem to be taking a weird "only bosses can care about issues" attitude, which is very New York Times but also not very realistic. I suspect much of the "elation" (if there was any and that wasn't just Swen being Swen and reading into stuff what he wants to read) was because they no longer had to work with WotC.

D&D General No More Baldur's Gate From Larion: Team Is 'Elated'

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