D&D General The First Demise of TSR: Gygax's Folly

Was Gygax a creative genius? If you look at his most impactful contributions, virtually all were iterations on work other people had started. Greyhawk, including (we now know, though he never admitted it) the pivotal Fantasy Supplement were iterations, often very close iterations, on work that others had done. The D&D Rules were iterations on what Arneson had been doing. Most of the new character classes were proposed first by others.

To me, his great contribution was more in having the vision and work ethic to make D&D happen. I don't think he was a remarkable ideas guy, I think he was a fantastic champion for the game. Without Gygax there is no D&D. He deserves most of the credit for the game existing today. But I don't think he deserves most of the conceptual credit.

And then I look at his subsequent work and...Gord the Rogue is not representative of creative genius, nor were his subsequent, half-realized forays into new game designs.
All I can say is the creatives that I have sat in conventions with and talked to claim he was. When We Were Wizards the designers that worked for him claim he was. I am not necessarily qualified to make that assessment. I liked Gord the Rogue so that is all subjective.
 

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All I can say is the creatives that I have sat in conventions with and talked to claim he was. When We Were Wizards the designers that worked for him claim he was. I am not necessarily qualified to make that assessment. I liked Gord the Rogue so that is all subjective.
I've read and I've played Dangerous Journeys. "A work of genius" is not the term I would use for that game. It's certainly expansive, but just because you can create a lot of stuff that doesn't mean that the stuff you create is any good.
 

Sorry that it doesn't fit into your notions about Gygax but whatever his flaws he did far more for our industry than Lorraine Williams ever did and I am tired of seeing him dragged through the mud to cover up the flaws of The Blume Brothers, Lorraine Williams, TSR, WOTC, Hasbro and everyone else involved.
Nobody can take away the role Gygax played in the creation of RPGs as we know it. Although it's ironic Gygax himself was dismissive of the role of others, like Arneson, in the creation of RPGs as we know it. Gygax was and will continue to be an icon of the industry like Ford is to the automobile, Chef Boyardee is to canned Italian food, and Thanos is to the zero population growth people.
The reason you're not hearing more criticisms of Williams is because we're centered around the Gygax years, 1974-1985. If we were focused on 1985-1997, I imagine you'd see a lot of criticism of how Williams' decisions led to the ultimate demise of TSR. But that doesn't absolve Gygax for abrogating his responsibility to run off to Hollywood. How many people at TSR did Gygax alienate?
 


Gary did ok, started a business, it still exists; the ups and downs are pretty normal, look at GM or Apple. At the end of the day, he was just another guy.
Having been defunct since 1997, the business Gary started, TSR, does not exist. TSR was wholly consumed by Wizards of the Coast and only exists as a memory. I know I've been pretty critical of Gary in this thread, but I don't think he was just another guy. I know I couldn't have accomplished the things he did.
 


It still exists as WOTC. Time and chance happen to everybody: you, him, me, etc..
Wizards of the Coast was a financially successful company flush with cash allowing them to purchase TSR lock, stock, and barrel. TSR is no more. It has ceased to be. It is bereft of life. It rests in peace. It is an ex-company. It's true that D&D the game still exists, but the company Gary Gygax created in October of 1973 ceased to exist at all by 2000 when WotC stopped selling D&D under TSR's name.
 

Wizards of the Coast was a financially successful company flush with cash allowing them to purchase TSR lock, stock, and barrel. TSR is no more. It has ceased to be. It is bereft of life. It rests in peace. It is an ex-company. It's true that D&D the game still exists, but the company Gary Gygax created in October of 1973 ceased to exist at all by 2000 when WotC stopped selling D&D under TSR's name.
This happens to companies all the time, however, the flagship brand, D&D, which was the company, it is still around.

Edit: Having been around in the 70's, I will also say that people then felt about Gary, and TSR in the same way people look at WotC, and Jeremy Crawford today.
 

Edit: Having been around in the 70's, I will also say that people then felt about Gary, and TSR in the same way people look at WotC, and Jeremy Crawford today.
Yeah, one of the biggest takeaways I got from reading through some of the Alarums & Excursions back-and-forths between Gary and others was how much contempt there was even then. It seemed like it was still a minority, but there was obviously a vocal one that didn’t really want someone in Geneva telling them anything and considered TSR as negative influence on the hobby because of it’s perceived profit seeking.
 

Was Gygax a creative genius? If you look at his most impactful contributions, virtually all were iterations on work other people had started. Greyhawk, including (we now know, though he never admitted it) the pivotal Fantasy Supplement were iterations, often very close iterations, on work that others had done. The D&D Rules were iterations on what Arneson had been doing. Most of the new character classes were proposed first by others.

To me, his great contribution was more in having the vision and work ethic to make D&D happen. I don't think he was a remarkable ideas guy, I think he was a fantastic champion for the game. Without Gygax there is no D&D. He deserves most of the credit for the game existing today. But I don't think he deserves most of the conceptual credit.

And then I look at his subsequent work and...Gord the Rogue is not representative of creative genius, nor were his subsequent, half-realized forays into new game designs.
His story strikes me as a perfect example of “right place, right time”. There’s a tendency to mythologize people who achieve success but there’s plenty of luck that goes into the mix, as well as an ability to recognize an opportunity. It doesn’t mean those people will always be successful - they’re not geniuses.
 

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