Kulan: Knightfall's Crisis in Bluffside Game [OOC]

TaranTheWanderer said:

From what I’ve read, the square you’re in is no longer threatened. So, unless he moves into a square that is threatened by someone else, he should be able to withdraw.

it depends if you think the ‘square’ is ‘two squares’ because of difficult terrain. I just think of squares as squares. I think that, if you withdraw, you are safe from the actual squares.

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Yes, the square is not supposed to be counted as threatened when withdrawing, but it feels broken to me that he can still leave that square, while it costs him two squares of movement, and there is no impact at all. Yes, his movement is reduced until he clears the spell's area, but it still feels broken to me.

Of course, there are so many things about D&D, in general, that are broken when it comes to combat. And not just 3rd edition. Heh.

So, for now, the squares count as two squares (three for diagonals [that I looked up]), but I'm still going to let him withdraw without delaying, and he does not have to worry about an AoO from the vampire.

(I don't like it, and I might need to come up with a house rule in the future.)

Tellerian Hawke said:

@Knightfall Tim's speed is 30 ft. @TaranTheWanderer : I am perfectly content to wait until the spell ends; Rob is a very fine DM, and I trust his judgment.

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Thank you. It is greatly appreciated.

I will leave it up to you. Either way, Tim won't take an AoO. Waiting for the spell to end will allow him to withdraw a greater distance from the combat. Plus, Tim only needs to squeeze through the 5-ft. open door, not the constricted corridor beyond it. That corridor is more than 5-ft. wide, so it doesn't slow Tim down.

TaranTheWanderer said:

You could do a withdrawal and you won’t suffer an AoO. Full round action for 60’feet of movement. That gets you past the door, I think?

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FYI @Tellerian Hawke: There is an issue of space beyond the door, whether or not Tim delays. While Tim won't have to squeeze through the smaller corridor, he will have to squeeze around the ladder to get to the proper side to climb it. Or...

He must climb it on the wrong (opposite) side for the opening above and then switch to the right (other) side mid climb. That would be a Climb Check, at the very least. I'd need to figure out the DC, if T.H. decides to delay and move. He wouldn't have to make that check until he tries to switch to the other side.

Tim would end his turn part way up the ladder (20 ft. by my calculations), if he delays and uses his full Speed unhindered, since there is no where for him to stand amid his allies. He cannot end his turn occupying the same space(s) as his allies or one of the NPCs.

Now, Tim could withdraw, without delaying, to the double doors and stand just inside the Labyrinth; he wouldn't be able to move any farther than that due to the lack of space. This would block non-flying characters from being able to get past him to the the other characters outside the Labyrinth. If a flying enemy tries to fly above Tim through the 15-ft. tall doors, then Tim will get an AoO vs that foe.

Knightfall said:

Yes, the square is not supposed to be counted as threatened when withdrawing, but it feels broken to me that he can still leave that square, while it costs him two squares of movement, and there is no impact at all. Yes, his movement is reduced until he clears the spell's area, but it still feels broken to me.

Of course, there are so many things about D&D, in general, that are broken when it comes to combat. And not just 3rd edition. Heh.

So, for now, the squares count as two squares (three for diagonals [that I looked up]), but I'm still going to let him withdraw without delaying, and he does not have to worry about an AoO from the vampire.

(I don't like it, and I might need to come up with a house rule in the future.)

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Sorry, I’m not trying to question or challenge your judgement. I just like discussing rules questions.

Withdraw is a weird thing. A double move is just two move actions while a withdrawal is a full round action. I’m not sure how they are different and what you are losing by doing a withdrawal over a double move.

Does a full round action limit attacks of opportunities? Or swift actions?

I have no idea. But I see what you are saying: there doesn’t seem to be a downside to the withdrawal action.

Tim withdraws with no delay. The first three squares are at half speed, and the last one is at normal speed.

The other option is to delay, double move (not withdraw [see the post below regarding climbing]), and Svengali his way through the door (squeezing) and up the ladder (climbing). Tim would effectively be 15 feet off the floor and 10 feet above Akos and Magg's heads. He would have to switch over to the other side of the ladder either as part of this move or during his next round of movement when he finishes his climb.

I still need to figure out how hard of Climb check that would be, but it will be a minimum of DC 15.

EDIT: Tim would take an AoO from Khagron, since you cannot use the withdraw action while climbing. He could end his withdraw in the same place as the non-delay option, but cannot go any farther until he double moves and risks the AoO.

So weird. No where in any of the references regarding the withdraw action, does it mention this fact.

TaranTheWanderer said:

Sorry, I’m not trying to question or challenge your judgement. I just like discussing rules questions.

Withdraw is a weird thing. A double move is just two move actions while a withdrawal is a full round action. I’m not sure how they are different and what you are losing by doing a withdrawal over a double move.

Does a full round action limit attacks of opportunities? Or swift actions?

I have no idea. But I see what you are saying: there doesn’t seem to be a downside to the withdrawal action.

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Oh, I know.

The withdraw action has always been a head scratcher for me. I found some notes in my personal Kulan Q&A Thread where T.H. and I had a conversation about how Withdraw works. I've linked the two AoO Rules of the Game articles there, and I've updated the broken links.

I need to update the broken links for the "All About Movement" post.

Anyway, I'm going to wait and let @Tellerian Hawke decide what he wants to do. I need to work on other stuff.

Saving this for later...


I definitely should have been having you guys roll Climb checks, even with a ladder (which reduces the DCs by 10, I think).

EDIT: I'm fairly certain the base Climb DCs should be 10 (based on the RC), but since I've not been using the rules properly, I'm going to set the climb DCs at 5. If the bad guys actually start to threaten characters as they're climbing, then it will be DC 10. With an accelerated climb, the DCs increase by +5. If you want your PC to attempt a climb at full speed, it is +20 to the DCs.

...So the total DC for full speed climb is DC 25?

Can I take 10, since I will be out of range of threatening enemies by the time I reach the ladder?