“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”

[Maxperson]

Your choice. In fact, any other questions about what group, or what criteria a particular group needs to meet for this discussion is up to you. Jus let us know what parameters you've chosen to identify the group you are willing to help.

Just this once. If you're going to question me, you get to do the work setting the parameters up.

I'll go with the insane. There are too many people who are homeless due to mental problems who should be in mental hospitals being cared for until they are well, or indefinitely if they can't get well. Reagan screwed the pooch with that one and emptied tons of people onto the streets who couldn't care for themselves and it has just grown worse over time as the population has increased. Reagan's actions need to be reversed and these people need to be collected off of the streets and be cared for.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Just this once. If you're going to question me, you get to do the work setting the parameters up.

Why, so you could keep avoiding answering the question?

I'll go with the insane. There are too many people who are homeless due to mental problems who should be in mental hospitals being cared for until they are well, or indefinitely if they can't get well.

Is that insane veterans you're referring to, or insane homeless people in general? By the way, you do know "insane" is just a legal term, right? There is no such classification as insane in the mental health field.

Reagan screwed the pooch with that one and emptied tons of people onto the streets who couldn't care for themselves and it has just grown worse over time as the population has increased. Reagan's actions need to be reversed and these people need to be collected off of the streets and be cared for.

So what would you actually do? Reverse every single thing Reagan did to take away the help people with mental health issues were getting before? Would you just leave it at reversing what he did? Expand some of it? Add new benefits? Try to be a bit more specific. You're not a politician running for office. You're allowed to give a clear answer.

 

[Maxperson]

Is that insane veterans you're referring to, or insane homeless people in general? By the way, you do know "insane" is just a legal term, right? There is no such classification as insane in the mental health field.

Being a veteran and insane isn't any different than not being one and being insane, except perhaps for where the insanity comes from. As for the classification, you know what I'm talking about so just let it go.

So what would you actually do? Reverse every single thing Reagan did to take away the help people with mental health issues were getting before? Would you just leave it at reversing what he did? Expand some of it? Add new benefits? Try to be a bit more specific. You're not a politician running for office. You're allowed to give a clear answer.

I'd have it set up so that they were off the streets and taken care of. If you want more than that, you'll have to talk to the experts I would hire to set it up. I'm not an expert on setting such things up.

 

[Maxperson]

The thing to show for it is a living human being where a twisted and starved corpse would be. How that isn't enough to anyone makes no freaking sense to me

It's a waste of money. Sure the person is alive, but they are essentially a leech on society. They take and take and take and give virtually nothing back. If you spend a bit more money and train them to work, they become productive and give, rather than just take. I'm all for helping those people, but only in ways that turn them productive. That is excepting the disabled, insane, etc. Those people just need to be cared for.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Being a veteran and insane isn't any different than not being one and being insane, except perhaps for where the insanity comes from. As for the classification, you know what I'm talking about so just let it go.

But the classification is very important. If you're going to misclassify these veterans, what hope is there that you're going to even know what is wrong with them or the reasons that they are homeless? You might end up attempting some method to help them that is completely useless and a waste of money. Wouldn't you rather know who you are dealing with and what to target to make things better for these patriotic veterans?

As to me knowing what you're talking about when you say "insanity," no, I don't know what you're talking about. In fact, you don't know what you're talking about. I'm not saying that to insult you, so don't get offended. You just wouldn't know what you're referring to when you say veteran X is insane and so is veteran Y. The two could easily have significantly different behaviors that qualify them for this insanity classification.

If you'd like to use the term insanity, maybe you can be more clear about what you mean by "insane veteran."

I'd have it set up so that they were off the streets and taken care of.

How would you fund that ind of treatment?

If you want more than that, you'll have to talk to the experts I would hire to set it up. I'm not an expert on setting such things up.

What kind of people would you hire? What would their purpose be? What limitations would you place on them?

 

[Maxperson]

But the classification is very important. If you're going to misclassify these veterans, what hope is there that you're going to even know what is wrong with them or the reasons that they are homeless? You might end up attempting some method to help them that is completely useless and a waste of money. Wouldn't you rather know who you are dealing with and what to target to make things better for these patriotic veterans?

As to me knowing what you're talking about when you say "insanity," no, I don't know what you're talking about. In fact, you don't know what you're talking about. I'm not saying that to insult you, so don't get offended. You just wouldn't know what you're referring to when you say veteran X is insane and so is veteran Y. The two could easily have significantly different behaviors that qualify them for this insanity classification.

If you'd like to use the term insanity, maybe you can be more clear about what you mean by "insane veteran."


How would you fund that ind of treatment?

What kind of people would you hire? What would their purpose be? What limitations would you place on them?

No. As you say, we've known each other for a long time and I'm not going to play these games with you here. Here are the facts.

1) The government has money all over the place. It can spend some on our needy instead of wasting it on other things.

2) The expertise to create working programs is also there. They can hire the people to do it.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

No. As you say, we've known each other for a long time and I'm not going to play these games with you here.

We have known each other for quite some time, haven't we? That's why I know you're playing games.

Here are the facts.

1) The government has money all over the place. It can spend some on our needy instead of wasting it on other things.

so it has money all over the place, but it doesn't have enough to spend some on our needy and some of the other needy people, like the Syrian refugees? that's interesting.

2) The expertise to create working programs is also there. They can hire the people to do it.

I'm sure the government could hire people with expertise. My question was what kind of people would you hire? Would you hire people with expertise in mental health?

You also didn't answer how you would fund this? Would you just take the existing money? From our time knowing each other, you've always complained that the government doesn't have money to fund a lot of stuff. How can it not have the money to fun teachers, one of your least favorite people, but be able to fund "insane" patriotic veteran for the rest of his life in a psychiatric setting? You complain about teachers getting their retirement paid for. At least they are working in schools until they retire after 30 years. These veterans aren't even doing that. You're going to pay for their retirement in a psychiatric setting for the rest of their lives, and you're not going to complain about it?

 

[Maxperson]

so it has money all over the place, but it doesn't have enough to spend some on our needy and some of the other needy people, like the Syrian refugees? that's interesting.

It may very well have enough to take care of all of our needy people before starting with the needy people of other countries. We should be finding out by taking care of all of our needy first.

I'm sure the government could hire people with expertise. My question was what kind of people would you hire? Would you hire people with expertise in mental health?

Experts.

You also didn't answer how you would fund this? Would you just take the existing money? From our time knowing each other, you've always complained that the government doesn't have money to fund a lot of stuff. How can it not have the money to fun teachers, one of your least favorite people, but be able to fund "insane" patriotic veteran for the rest of his life in a psychiatric setting? You complain about teachers getting their retirement paid for. At least they are working in schools until they retire after 30 years. These veterans aren't even doing that. You're going to pay for their retirement in a psychiatric setting for the rest of their lives, and you're not going to complain about it?

The government has plenty of money. It just needs to spend it properly and not waste billions on crap.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

It may very well have enough to take care of all of our needy people before starting with the needy people of other countries. We should be finding out by taking care of all of our needy first.

So rally, what you're saying is that you don't know how much money the government has. It could have enough to help all of our needy people, plus enough to help needy people around the world. Why not help everyone?

Experts.

Experts in what, though? Mental health? Religion? Oil drilling?

The government has plenty of money. It just needs to spend it properly and not waste billions on crap.

What would you say is a waste of government money? Teacher benefits and retirement? Welfare programs? Subsidies for health insurance?

 

[Orlax]

It's a waste of money. Sure the person is alive, but they are essentially a leech on society. They take and take and take and give virtually nothing back. If you spend a bit more money and train them to work, they become productive and give, rather than just take. I'm all for helping those people, but only in ways that turn them productive. That is excepting the disabled, insane, etc. Those people just need to be cared for.

There's still a margin in there where you are essentially totally fine with putting a gun to someone's head and pulling the trigger. You just use the guns of dehydration and starvation, because you'd rather they die slow and undignified. All because you deem them unworthy of help.