“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”

[Maxperson]

How many Anne Franks are we turning away this time?

Far fewer than the number of needy Americans turned away daily.

I hate that argument/ talking point.

As you say, it's possible to do both. Amazing things could be done domestically to help the homeless for a few hundred million.
But most of the time it's just a dismissal. If something were done locally it'd be different, but too often there's no follow through or attempt to actually help the disenfranchised. ("Yeah, I could wash the dishes. But why should I do the dishes when I'm haven't vacuumed? I should do the vacuuming before I do the dishes. So off to Netflix I guess.")

Follow through by who? I don't have the money for it. The government has to do it and I'm not responsible for their lack of follow through. They should be taking care of Americans, but they don't.

Also, it's really, really insulting. Super insulting. It's effectively equating the two problems, and thus comparing refugees to the homeless.

You have created that on your own and then become insulted by it. I never made any comparison and I don't think they are the same. That lack of difference is irrelevant, though. It doesn't matter why anyone else is needy. Needy Americans need to come first and then we can take care of the others with their various needs.

That's super problematic as the two groups are very different. The homeless issue is incredibly complex and "fixing" it involves touching on a whole lot of problems including treating mental illness, addiction, social support systems, rent programs, employment programs, and so many other factors. It's really hard for a federal government to fix when so much involves many different departments, state/provincial groups, and local cooperation.

Yes it does. It should still be done before any help goes to anyone else.

Meanwhile, the refugee problem is much simpler. The why they have no homes and jobs is apparent. And making progress on fixing the issue can be handled federally or more locally.

And this just allows the Americans in need to be swept under the rug. As soon as you start doing the easier things before the harder things, the harder things never get done. There are always easier things to do.

Also, refugees are brave people. They're giving up everything to leave their homes and travel across the world in the hopes of a better life. They're dedicated, driven, and ambitious. That's the kind of people you need and want in your countries. The kind of people who aren't going to just sit and accept a bad life but actively try to improve their situation.

Bravery doesn't make them more important than the Americans we have. Nor does dedication, drive or ambition.

 

[Maxperson]

What if the the effect of radicalism happens without our doing anything? There are lots of actors who are not the US promoting it. We could do things to promote it, but let's say we aren't doing any such things.

Then what if we could do things to undercut it? And what if taking in refugees is one such thing?

Thx!
TomB

How would it undercut it. The ones who hate America are not generally going to come here, and the ones that do probably aren't going to trust the tricks of the great satan and change their views. Those that come here are going to mainly be the ones who wouldn't radicalize in the first place.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Far fewer than the number of needy Americans turned away daily.

It doesn't matter why anyone else is needy. Needy Americans need to come first and then we can take care of the others with their various needs.

Yes it does. It should still be done before any help goes to anyone else.

And this just allows the Americans in need to be swept under the rug. As soon as you start doing the easier things before the harder things, the harder things never get done. There are always easier things to do.

It always makes me laugh when I hear this argument that we have to take care of need group X in America before we can help group Y outside of America. It's funny because conservatives, who happen to be the ones against helping these Syrians, are also the same ones against helping the needy in America. They are always trying to defund programs that help the needy. So in effect, they can always claim that some group of needy people in the U.S. needs to be helped before they can help those outside the U.S. because they have manufactured their own needy group.

Bravery doesn't make them more important than the Americans we have. Nor does dedication, drive or ambition.

This is actually true,. It's why we have homeless veterans that only get mentioned by conservatives when they want to point out that there is a group of Americans that need help before others can be helped. It's also why conservatives are so comfortable cutting programs to help the needy, including said brave homeless soldiers. Conservatives don't seem to care about a person's dedication, drive, or ambition.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

How would it undercut it. The ones who hate America are not generally going to come here, and the ones that do probably aren't going to trust the tricks of the great satan and change their views. Those that come here are going to mainly be the ones who wouldn't radicalize in the first place.

You know life doesn't actually work like an internet argument. People do change their minds, especially when they experience something different than what they've been told.

 

[Maxperson]

It always makes me laugh when I hear this argument that we have to take care of need group X in America before we can help group Y outside of America. It's funny because conservatives, who happen to be the ones against helping these Syrians, are also the same ones against helping the needy in America. They are always trying to defund programs that help the needy. So in effect, they can always claim that some group of needy people in the U.S. needs to be helped before they can help those outside the U.S. because they have manufactured their own needy group.

This is actually true,. It's why we have homeless veterans that only get mentioned by conservatives when they want to point out that there is a group of Americans that need help before others can be helped. It's also why conservatives are so comfortable cutting programs to help the needy, including said brave homeless soldiers. Conservatives don't seem to care about a person's dedication, drive, or ambition.

You got that wrong. It's not conservatives. It's Republicans. There's a difference.

 

[Maxperson]

You know life doesn't actually work like an internet argument. People do change their minds, especially when they experience something different than what they've been told.

You missed a few words. I went and bolded them in my post so you wouldn't miss them the second time around.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

You got that wrong. It's not conservatives. It's Republicans. There's a difference.

That's right, I totally forgot that conservatives were the ones pushing to expand programs that help the poor and needy. Damn those republicans for giving conservatives a bad name.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

You missed a few words. I went and bolded them in my post so you wouldn't miss them the second time around.

That's funny. It's funny that you think those bolded words actually make a difference.

 

[Maxperson]

That's right, I totally forgot that conservatives were the ones pushing to expand programs that help the poor and needy. Damn those republicans for giving conservatives a bad name.

All Republicans are conservatives, but not all conservatives are Republicans. I am conservative and I am for helping the poor and needy. Don't lump me in with Republicans. I am not now, never have been, and never will be a Republican. They are as useless as the Democrats (not liberals). Both parties need to go away as they are both cause great and equal damage to this country, just in different ways.

 

[Maxperson]

That's funny. It's funny that you think those bolded words actually make a difference.

For people who understand those words, they acknowledge that some small number of people can change their minds. For the most part, people don't, though. Not when they have enough hate to radicalize. It generally takes some intensive therapy and a desire to change for that much hate to go away.