D&D 4E 1/2 Orcs in 4E (Rich Baker scoop)

[Darkwolf71]

I've been DMing for about 20 years and in many settings (Toril, Krynn, Oerth, Athas, Ravenloft, Planescape, Al-Qadim etc), and my players have never come across an orc or a halfling and our D&D sessions have been just dandy.

Well, bully for you. For the rest of us, who enjoy orcs and halflings, that doesn't work real well. But, you have a nice day.

 

[Steely Dan]

For the rest of us, who enjoy orcs and halflings, that doesn't work real well. But, you have a nice day.

I will, and of course it's just my take on it, so have fun with whatever floats your boat in your campaign worlds (orclings or whatever).

 

[Imaro]

To swing this argument to another pendulum...I'm not to keen on them putting half-orcs on the DDI. Yes, they said there will be compilations of DDI material for those who choose not to or won't subscribe...but I just don't like it for such an iconic race that has no counterpoint so far in 4e.

Dragonborn vs. Half-orcs: I'm not seeing the same niche here at all...except for the whole "me strong" vibe. Dragonborn aren't conflicted between two worlds at all, they have a common culture and history so are really only outsiders in the sense that an elf or dwarf is an outsider in a commmunity of another race.

Half-orcs on the other hand are the people without a past, abandoned, and often blatantly discriminated by their parents people as well as the other races (through no real fault of their own) and are forced to live on the fringes of society and faced with the choice to give in to their savage side and become monsters or become heroes (perhaps through that same savagery) and carve some kind of niche in one of the two worlds that hate them. I still haven't seen a race in 4e that fills this niche.

Tieflings vs. Half-orcs: IMHO this race is closer to the niche half-orcs held than the dragonborn, but...it's still not the same. These are the people whose empire bargained with hell and lost. They are the struggle of evil vs. good or redemption for the past vs. damnation in the future . Certainly not the same as the savage vs. civilization struggle of the half-orc. I guess the best way I can explain it is...tieflings=Elric, while half-orcs=Conan. Totally different themes and explorations with these two characters. Personally I wonder how tieflings are able to adventure and move through the societies of the other races. It seems like they embody (even moreso than orcs) everything the other races would hate and want to destroy on sight, especially since they still bear the taint of their ancestors(who tried to conquer them) in a very apparent physical manifestation, and demons are a very real thing in the POL setting. But, I don't really have all the facts about tieflings, so the designers may have already accounted for this.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Can the same be said of rape? Is there anyone who is NOT offended by the thought of rape?

I am not offended by the decision of a player to use "child of rape" as a background for a character. It is a background that only fits certain games obviously, but what doesn't come with that caveat?

I am also not offended by the decision of a player to use an ancestral pact in their character background, with all similar boilerplate.

I am somewhat offended by claims that an entire PC race must have one of those backgrounds, especially when I may want to explore another options that fits the crunch and fluff just as well and is as realistic in game.

I am annoyed, but not offended, by posters who start tilting at strawmen of "neighbor orcs Farmer Bob is thrilled to have his daughter date" when the above option is suggested.

You do not need to make Orcs acceptable or integrated to have non-rape explainations for half orcs in 3x. It does help if you let go of of prior edition preconceptions and let orcs be what they are described as in the monster manual. Some of the explanations can be just as angsty and/or gritty as the child of rape one if you want.

 

[Rechan]

To swing this argument to another pendulum...I'm not to keen on them putting half-orcs on the DDI. Yes, they said there will be compilations of DDI material for those who choose not to or won't subscribe...but I just don't like it for such an iconic race that has no counterpoint so far in 4e.

I'm sure we'll see it in print. Maybe the PHBII or something.

 

[Rechan]

I am somewhat offended by claims that an entire PC race must have one of those backgrounds, especially when I may want to explore another options that fits the crunch and fluff just as well and is as realistic in game.

Well, the fluff is just what's in the PHB. If you want to make tieflings something else, go right ahead. Just like you could change the fluff for Elves, Dwarves or Halflings.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

I say leave half-orcs, and orcs, period, where they belong, in Middle-Earth.

Warcraft and Warhammer wish to have a word with you.

they have now a place in fantasy, like any other races.

 

[Steely Dan]

Warcraft and Warhammer wish to have a word with you.

Just because they also plagiarized an author's work doesn't make it work, IMO.

Look, I'm sorry everybody, obviously this can be a sensitive issue, just for me, I see orc or halfling and I think Tolkien/Middle-Earth, not that there is anything wrong with that (I'm a huge fan), I just don't like it in my non-Middle-Earth campaigns.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Just because they also plagiarized an author's work doesn't make it work, IMO.

Look, I'm sorry everybody, obviously this can be a sensitive issue, just for me, I see orc or halfling and I think Tolkien/Middle-Earth, not that there is anything wrong with that (I'm a huge fan), I just don't like it in my non-Middle-Earth campaigns.

They didn't merely copy... They took a critter, gave it a new spin and made them distinctly them. Tastefull, flavorfull.

 

[Steely Dan]

They didn't merely copy... They took a critter, gave it a new spin and made them distinctly them. Tastefull, flavorfull.

Okay, so while they were tastefully and flavourfully spinning, couldn't they have at least spun out a different name for the chaps?