D&D 4E 1/2 Orcs in 4E (Rich Baker scoop)

[frankthedm]

Oh, please. Noone is saying that rape is acceptable or in anyway positive, but really. Just 'write it out of existance'?

"Oh no... some half-orcs are the product of rape! Better just ignore that. *wink wink*
We can think of a 'more acceptable' back story later."

Get. Off.

PC police have struck once more.

Agreed.

 

[Azgulor]

You can convert a character from any system to any system. The only question is how much work and creativity it will take.

There isn't going to be a simple formula for going from 3e to 4e, but it will assuredly be possible - there are playtest reports where they describe how it was actually *done*. (Emulating a psion using a wizard with different fluff, for example.)

I don't disagree, but it was WotC representatives that said it wouldn't be worth doing and their preference was for gamers to start clean with 4e.

 

[Professor Phobos]

D&D isn't particularly grim in general, though, so I think the removal of the half-orc is hardly damaging to D&D.

I don't think it is; I can see the logic. I was just saying that for those of us who do enjoy grim, human settings, it's almost a necessary background element of the race, barring exceptional circumstances.

Can the same be said of rape? Is there anyone who is NOT offended by the thought of rape?

Of course I am offended and disgusted by it, but that doesn't stop me from reading fiction in which it occurs. (Fantasy examples: A Song of Ice and Fire, Malazan Books of the Fallen) Nor would it stop me from having it in RPGs; I'm an adult, I game with adults, and I like to think I can handle it tastefully.

Also, I'm not arguing for the inclusion of rape in the half-orcs backstory or the removal of infernal pact/influence in the tieflings. I'm just saying that arguing one is bad but the other is acceptable is hypocritical thinking.

No, one is fictional, the other is real. There is a whole world of difference between the two and how they need to be handled to be appropriate.

 

[buzz]

No, one is fictional, the other is real. There is a whole world of difference between the two and how they need to be handled to be appropriate.

Thank you.

 

[Vigilance]

Why not just say that Orcs sometimes rape human women? (And, of course, that human men sometimes rape Orc women...)

It made sense in terms of "fantasy genetics" and the necessary world-building, plus it provides some interesting avenues for character development.

Honestly I don't see what was wrong with the original explanation. Dark, obviously, and not suited perhaps to younger players, but I imagine most of D&D's audience is old enough...

Games with female players will tell you why.

Every woman I have ever gamed with hated rape being introduced into the game, especially when wankers did it "for realism".

It's just not a suitable topic for a game imo, and it has been more or less implicit in the half-orc from the beginning.

And as others have said, if orcs can be nice then other things would need to change that people would be crying about, like orcs as cannon fodder its ok to kill by the dozens.

 

[Darkwolf71]

No, one is fictional, the other is real. There is a whole world of difference between the two and how they need to be handled to be appropriate.

Actually, in this context. BOTH are fictional and both can be handled in the same off screen manner. Anyone who's D&D games involve described detailed instances of rape has issues that a simple hand wave manuver by WotC can't make go away. I think most of us normal folk can handle it.

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

So, the other issue... the one that bothers me: part of the rules are going to be hidden from book-only customers on DDI.

Thoughts?

Uh... Yes, when you pay for the DDI, you kind of expect actual content to come? I'm not seeing an issue here.

 

[JohnSnow]

From what I've read, most changelings aren't conceived with humans. Their just left with them. In fact what traditional source actually has a fae and a human experiencing an actual romance? If I'm wrong I'm willing to accept that, but none come to mind offhand.

Well, I got the following from Wikipedia, but with that in mind:

In the Thidrek's Saga a human queen is surprised to learn that the lover who has made her pregnant is an elf and not a man. From this union, she bore the hero Högni.

In the Heimskringla and in The Saga of Thorstein, Viking's Son, there is a line of local kings who ruled over Álfheim, and since they had elven blood they were said to be more beautiful than most men. Of that land, it is recorded:

The land governed by King Alf was called Alfheim, and all his offspring are related to the elves. They were fairer than any other people...

Their last king, incidentally, was named Gandalf. Those of Alfheim intermarried (and interbred) with other men, and many of the Scandinavian heroes are half-elven or elf-blooded. So clearly, love between men and elves isn't totally unheard of in the original sources.

Yes, rape also occurs. But we are talking vikings here. :\

 

[frankthedm]

Given that selling one's soul to an otherworldly being is a totally fictional concept, and rape is a horrific act of violence experienced by real people all over the world on a daily basis, I don't see how one could equate them even remotely.

I'd advise more caution than to impugn the beliefs of Christians who have had the concept of the deal with the devil enter their belief system. While it might be a very good subject for a theological debate, that debate is not one for enworld.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

You're leaving out part of the statement, I believe. Weren't there qualifications on what content would be published? Words like 'some' and 'popular'?

So? If the half-orc isn't popular, why the hell should Wizards of the Coast waste paper and ink on printing it?

That's a poor example, since I'm sure the half-orc will be properly dealt with by the time Eberron rolls around. But it does extend to anything else you can imagine.