Level Up (A5E) 1 level fighter dip too easy?

[Faolyn]

But the pool isn’t smaller now. You have an exertion pool of 12 PLUS all your spell exertion.

You can also pull off some other interesting combos in other classes with a dip into fighter. Berserkers with Razor’s Edge anyone? Or an unarmed fighting style with an Adept to get that early d8 unarmed strike die?

Where are you getting 12 exertion again? Your exertion doesn't stack. And with Heralds, it specifies you get those four exertion only if your first levels are Herald?

 

[Faolyn]

first off like xip said Heralds are the ONE class that actually gets more exertion from getting a level in another class that gets maneuvers, but second getting proficiency in two more traditions your normal class may not even have is a pretty big boon just due to the added versatility. and you're forgetting one thing this entire thread has been about - one level in fighter gets you the fighter's maneuver progression. i think you're DRASTICALLY underselling the value of fighter 1.

No, they don't, actually. Heralds get a set number of exertion--the same amount as every other martial class--only if you multiclass and start with a Herald. So if you're, say, a Fighter 3/Herald 1, you have four exertion. Not four plus four plus spell exertion.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

No, they don't, actually. Heralds get a set number of exertion--the same amount as every other martial class--only if you multiclass and start with a Herald. So if you're, say, a Fighter 3/Herald 1, you have four exertion. Not four plus four plus spell exertion.

...yeah...because...heralds get spell exertion as part of their combat maneuvers feature. so a herald 2/fighter 3 is always going to have 6 exertion and spell slots they can convert into exertion regardless of which class they started in. that's...that's more exertion then a herald 2. and they don't need to keep leveling in fighter to increase that exertion pool, so that pool is gonna keep going up even if they leave their fighter levels at 3.

 

[Faolyn]

...yeah...because...heralds get spell exertion as part of their combat maneuvers feature. so a herald 2/fighter 3 is always going to have 6 exertion and spell slots they can convert into exertion regardless of which class they started in. that's...that's more exertion then a herald 2. and they don't need to keep leveling in fighter to increase that exertion pool, so that pool is gonna keep going up even if they leave their fighter levels at 3.

No, they get 4 exertion and can then spend spell slots to gain more exertion--but they have to spend those slots first. They don't automatically have 6 points in their pool. Additionally, a herald's exertion are temporary, not part of their actual exertion pool, so they can't be replenished by spending HD, because their pool is 4, not 6 or higher.

 

[xiphumor]

The relevant passage. Because Herald’s gain an exertion pool equal to twice their proficiency bonus, and because your proficiency bonus changes as you level, a 16 herald / 1 fighter has an exertion of 12.

Even if your first level is in fighter and then you go into Herald, it remains the same because the text only states that your exertion POOL doesn’t stack, and Heralds don’t gain an exertion pool anyway. You would still gain the ability to turn spell slots into exertion.

There’s nothing in the text that says they have to spend spell slots first or that you loose the ability to convert spell slots into exertion.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

No, they get 4 exertion and can then spend spell slots to gain more exertion--but they have to spend those slots first. They don't automatically have 6 points in their pool. Additionally, a herald's exertion are temporary, not part of their actual exertion pool, so they can't be replenished by spending HD, because their pool is 4, not 6 or higher.

a herald 2/fighter 3 has 6 exertion from the fighter exertion pool, which is twice their proficiency bonus, which at level 5 is +3. and sure, besides those 6 exertion they need to spend spell slots to get more exertion, but they can do so at the start of each of their turns without an action and there's no limit to how many spell slots they can convert at one time. a 20th level herald could theoretically convert all their spell slots into exertion at the start of their first turn in combat (for a total of 82 exertion - good lord) - and it does EXPLICTLY say you can spend MULTIPLE slots at the start of your turn ("[...]at the start of each of your turns you can expend spell slots of 1st-level or higher to gain exertion points[...]").

and who said anything about spending HD? that's not a problem with a herald/fighter multiclass. it's irrelevant.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Because Herald’s gain a proficiency bonus equal to half of their proficiency bonus,

erm...typo? lol?

 

[Faolyn]

a herald 2/fighter 3 has 6 exertion from the fighter exertion pool, which is twice their proficiency bonus, which at level 5 is +3. and sure, besides those 6 exertion they need to spend spell slots to get more exertion, but they can do so at the start of each of their turns without an action and there's no limit to how many spell slots they can convert at one time. a 20th level herald could theoretically convert all their spell slots into exertion at the start of their first turn in combat (for a total of 82 exertion - good lord) - and it does EXPLICTLY say you can spend MULTIPLE slots at the start of your turn ("[...]at the start of each of your turns you can expend spell slots of 1st-level or higher to gain exertion points[...]").

and who said anything about spending HD? that's not a problem with a herald/fighter multiclass. it's irrelevant.

All right, I apologize about the 6 exertion. But you're still assuming that a person is invariably spending those spell slots on exertion which is not a given. And quite frankly, I can see this as being a thing that is instantly houseruled the second it got abused in that fashion, to one spell/turn. So, maybe useful once.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

All right, I apologize about the 6 exertion. But you're still assuming that a person is invariably spending those spell slots on exertion which is not a given.

...ok?

And quite frankly, I can see this as being a thing that is instantly houseruled the second it got abused in that fashion, to one spell/turn. So, maybe useful once.

so you agree it's unusually powerful?

 

[xiphumor]

Okay, I think we’re starting to come to a consensus. I would add that if something would be instantly house-ruled, it should just be RAW.

I think Murphy’s Law applies in this situation: if something can go wrong, it will. I.e. if someone can abuse the rules this way, they will. Heck, I’m even tempted to make such a character, and I’m here complaining about its possibility!