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Level Up (A5E) #1 Origins Playtest Document - (Heritage) Nitty Gritty Feedback

Stalker0

Legend
So I've had a chance to really delve into the document. Here is my detailed nitty gritty feedback on various parts. There is so much to cover that I'm going to break this up into a few threads.

This thread covers the Heritages

For ease of reference, I'm going to use a quick rating system.

A - Perfect, solid, I love it.
B - A bit more niche than I would like, but probably in the right campaign it will be fine.
C - Needs some work, its on the weak side.
O - Overpowered, just too strong, needs a tone down.

Heritages

Dragonborn


Base Stats (A) - Decent, breath is always fun but nothing too outlandish.

Armor - (A) Solid
Fins - (B) Somewhat weak for a typical campaign, but may be quite useful in a more water heavy setting. I don't think its AC bonus needs to be weaker than Armor personally. Also why is this low-light instead of darkvision?
Wings - (O) The strongest one by far. There's two issues:

a) There isn't actually a dragonborn here that seems to want to wear heavy armor, which is weird for the race.
b) The problem with Wings is that it allows me 2 rounds of fly "at-will", as long as I am willing to land. The amount of extra mobility that grants the race is amazing, you can bypass many cliffs, who needs a climb speed when you can just fly, you can ignore difficult terrain in combat, etc. I think you need to just make 1 use per short rest of 3 rounds of fly. That is still really good, but compared to at will resistance and swim its a bit more comparable.

Paragon:
The Chromatic One is the best by far in most games. Now the +1d6 to Int or Charisma is alright (note that guidance gives you a +1d4 those checks AND a whole punch of other checks, but this technically stacks with guidance so its still decent), but I think most people are going to take chromatic in most games. Again if nothing else, I would just remove the dragon type requirements here, if you want to give players a list of choices, just let them choose. The essence one I think is weak the majority of the time, but perhaps in a game where healing magic has been greatly nerfed, this could be cool and useful.

Dwarf

Base Stats (A) - A note on Creator's blessing. The way I read that is, as long as I craft, I never need sleep (ever), and therefore can be fully awake on watches at all times. That is a cool idea for dwarfs, but I wanted to ensure that was your intention.

Stability (C) - So here's the trick, if your going to create abilities that are very niche (like the prone condition), and have them measure up to nice solid combat ability (like Dwarven Stubbornness), than it has to be GOOD. This ability...I would never take it. Now if you made it where I was immune to prone and immune to shove... I would still take stubbornness the majority of the time but this one would then have a cool niche. Immunities are very cool, and I think giving players immunities to very niche things can be very flavorful. But any less than that....no one is going to bother.

Stubbornness (A) - Default the best one, really makes the dwarf tough.

Gifted Artisan (A) - Expertise in a skill has merit, so for players that want to focus less on combat and more on the dwarven craft, this could be really cool for them. So I think this one holds up.

Iron Guts (B) - This one is better than stability but I'll just throw it out there. Would giving them immunity to Poison damage really be that overpowered, considered that its their one dwarven thing, considering they are giving up a whole bunch of extra hitpoints that will come in handy a lot more often than poison attacks.

Stone Fist (C) - I can't imagine who would take this. Maybe at 1d6 + strength, then you could consider it as a replacement for a pair of shortswords, but at 1d4 + strength...why. Daggers are cheap!


Fury of the Earth (Paragon - C) - So this seems like a cool ability...until you realize this is 10th level, we have 5th level spells flying around at this point. Even if you gave a dwarf this at-will, no rest needed, and he used it every round...I mean prone is just not a strong condition in 5e, and he is giving up his precious action instead of doing damage. I don't think at-will is off the ballpark at all.

Unbreakable (Paragon - A) - Cool, solid, this ones a keeper.


Elf
Base Stats (A)

Preternatural Awareness - (A) Good, solid, fun.

Mystic Rapport (B) - I have had characters in my games use telepathy before. It sounds nice, but when they can't talk back it really limits the usefulness of the ability, and often after the reverse "reveal" of the power it gets sidelined and not used as much. So I would make it full telepathy but one person at a time. That is a cool and flavorful power, not as strong as other elf abilities but its cinematically awesome enough I think people would take it.

Prescient Vision - (A) I think this one compares well to Preternatural Awareness. Its a very strong but limited ability vs Awareness which is always solid and always running. I think its a good one.

Blessing of the First Born: (A) I think this is a nice nod to Gender fluidity without being too overt. Its nice, it gets the job done.

Elfsight (Paragon - B): If a DM is a stickler for light source this one seems decent, obviously if your playing an archer type.

Inexorable Darkvision (Paragon - C): I think this is an ability that "sounds" really cool, and when I first read it I thought it was really neat. In practice, how often is it going to come up? I guess a DM could create hooks to show it off, but I think in comparison to other 10th level stuff its not going to be all that great.

Spiritual Awareness (Paragon - A) - Now this is a paragon power! Its dripping with flavor, solidly useful, and appropriately powerful for 10th level. I've had a knowledge cleric in my game who used detect thoughts quite a bit, ultimately its a very useful ability, but only getting surface thoughts does limit a lot of things, so I don't think its too strong. The main question mark is...are DMs going to get tired of having to mention the surface thoughts of every NPC that comes by...because that will happen.


Gnome
Base Stats (B) - I'll just note that I feel the Gnome could use one or two more gifts, the ones given are nice, just a bit limiting. The flavor keeps pushing Gnome's are "innately magical", but only one of their two possible gifts does anything magical.

Agility (A) - Good solid bonus

Into Mist (A) - Both interesting in or out of combat, there is a lot of utility for this one.

Gnomish Paragon (A) - Pretty solid.


Halfling
Base Stats (A) - I really like the paragon upgrade to lucky, but should have been noted in the paragon section to keep it consistent (unless your planning to give them paragon options and keep lucky's power).

Burrowing Claws (A or O) - Just awesome! This is such a cool niche, we so very rarely get to see players with a burrow speed. It creates so many cool options, I would really love to see how this looks in playtest. The claw addition is almost pure fluff (99% of the time you wouldn't need them), but the burrow speed is so awesome, having a little gravy is no problem). I am possibly worried this is overpowered, there's just so many nutty things you can do with burrow.

Tuft Feet (B) - The immunity to spikes is nice, its niche...but any immunity is usually something players will find neat ways to utilize. This one has potential, but its needs a bit more to compete with a burrow speed!

Twilight Touched (C) - I do think the physical description is great and creepy, but the abilities don't hold up against the other ones noted. I've already given my spiel about telepathy.


Human
Base Stats (A) - I like intrepid, nice ability.

Die Hard Survivor (B) - The death saving throw bonus is nice, but its not enough, and the Famine ability is pure fluff in the majority of games. This one needs something else adds into the pile.

Spirited Traveler (B) - Mad dash is pretty decent, again the first two are mostly fluff in a standard game. This one is close, just needs a biiiiit more.

Ingenious Focus (B) - So resident expert is clunky, I get what your going for, but honestly I would rather just have a take 10 power or something if your going that route. Meanwhile the concentration save can be very useful. Just noting, unlike abilities like lucky, the language of this power indicates that I could keep spending Inexorable Concentration on the same save over and over again until I pass. I honestly think that is fine for this niche power, but just confirming if that was your intention.

Determined (Paragon - A) - Not as flashy as some of the other racial powers, I'm honestly not even sure if it needs the half health thing. Its a very nice bonus 1/rest, seems reasonable at Paragon.

Evasive Action (Paragon - A) - None of the abilities here are particularly awesome for this level, but when you combine them all together, you get a pretty solid benefit that I think a lot of characters would enjoy.

Voracious Learner (Paragon - C) - Proficiencies are just not that great at this point in the game. Now if you want to make it Expertise instead, now we are talking.


Orc
Base Stats (A)

Tough-Blooded (B) - Its decent, but compared to some other racial abilities, or even other orc ones, its just ok.

Ancestral Blessing (A or B) - A lot of cool things in here, most of it is niche, but there are enough different niches that this might work out. I still don't know if it holds up to other racial gifts though.

Biome Native (A) - Getting an energy resistance is always good. The rest is fluff, but it works.

Magic Adept (A) - Decent power...though flavorwise I'm not quite sure how this fits in with orcs as their typically shown in dnd.

Orc Paragon (A) - Ultimately getting a +1 AC is always good, I don't think it needs to be needlessly restricted by no shield, but enough orc archetypes will go two handed that it will still see a lot of use.


Tiefling
Base Stats (A)

Archdevil-Blooded (A): Good spells that are thematically appropriate.

Cursed (C): Not enough here.

Cambion-Blooded (A): I think this is more how the Dragonborn wings should work. Its very strong, but at 1st rest it limits its general utility.

Paragon Gift (B) - Yes some tieflings will be raining fire, but many will not. Further, flavorwise...can devils normally negate fire immunity? Where does this power come from?
 

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Stalker0

Legend
I'd maybe make it as an Action to activate the burrow speed for the round, so it may be used in combat strategically but avoid a possible whack-a-mole fighting style.

That's a decent option. Honestly, even if they gave halflings just the tunnel option, aka they can't just burrow willy nilly but can make tunnels, there are still a ton of cool uses.
 


clearstream

(He, Him)
Voracious Learner (Paragon - C) - Proficiencies are just not that great at this point in the game. Now if you want to make it Expertise instead, now we are talking.
I'm concerned about skill modifier inflation, which if pushed will invalidate the design intent behind the DC guidelines (e.g. table in DMG).

The current package sees Expertise handed out to more characters, some characters having a personal 1d6 for swathes of skills, and more characters having access one way or another to Guidance (a cantrip that should likely not exist, or be a spell). Add Bardic Inspiration, frequent advantage (which will translate to +5s on passives), feats and such...

I honestly feel like the expressive range the designers are using - mechanically - needs workshopping. Instead of bonusing all skills connected to one ability, they could be more focused. Instead of Expertise, they could think about other ways to benefit the skill use such as enhanced applicability or effect in some situations.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
I'm concerned about skill modifier inflation, which if pushed will invalidate the design intent behind the DC guidelines (e.g. table in DMG).

The current package sees Expertise handed out to more characters, some characters having a personal 1d6 for swathes of skills, and more characters having access one way or another to Guidance (a cantrip that should likely not exist, or be a spell). Add Bardic Inspiration, frequent advantage (which will translate to +5s on passives), feats and such...

I honestly feel like the expressive range the designers are using - mechanically - needs workshopping. Instead of bonusing all skills connected to one ability, they could be more focused. Instead of Expertise, they could think about other ways to benefit the skill use such as enhanced applicability or effect in some situations.
Having had multiple dragonmarked characters with d4/d6/etc to a skill at my table I never had trouble. Can you give specific examples you are referring to like x culture/y heritage/z background?
 

clearstream

(He, Him)
Having had multiple dragonmarked characters with d4/d6/etc to a skill at my table I never had trouble. Can you give specific examples you are referring to like x culture/y heritage/z background?
The terms "expertise" or "double your proficiency bonus" appear 15 times. "Advantage" is referenced about 45 times, plus 2 special cases of Help. Rolling an additional d6, or having guidance (so a d4), or having access to guidance (which very often means it will be taken) appears several times.

That's in isolation, but I think these rules should be considered in the context of everything else characters have access to. If advantage and disadvantage counted against each other source-by-source, having more sources might seem better justified. Even then, designers should be conscious of sliding baseline ability checks out along the DCs table.
 
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tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
The terms "expertise" or "double your proficiency bonus" appear 15 times. "Advantage" is referenced about 45 times, plus 2 special cases of Help. Rolling an additional d6, or having guidance (so a d4), or having access to guidance (which very often means it will be taken) appears several times.

That's in isolation, but I think these rules should be considered in the context of everything else characters have access to. If advantage and disadvantage counted against each other source-by-source, having more sources might seem better justified.
I never really liked how expertise worked in 5e & have found it works much better without the problematic autosucceed that goes with it if you change it to advantage on the proficiency die (dmg263) rather than just flat proficiency *2. Doing that has the added advantage of allowing +x gear that just sets the floor for what you can roll on the proficiency die rather than giving bigger numbers.

1599494168359.png

Also it seems that (dis)advantage will be reworked. changing it to a numeric value you add up & reroll if above/below got floated a while back by Morrus here that would make it much more granular & fine grained.

As to guidace, clerics start with 3 cantrips with a 4th at level3 & nearly always take it because its on of the few good ones they have available & that number of good ones just happens to ad up to 3.
1599494813879.png

Guidance is a near total nonissue in play
 

JiffyPopTart

Bree-Yark
I only super-quickly breezed through the document but one thing jumped out at me.

The gnome ability to get +1 to AC when attacked by a medium or larger opponent.....strikes me as being a callback to the 3e era of stacking up countless small modifiers instead of relying on the 5e basics. Unless Level Up is planning on reintroducing lots of these style mini-modifiers I would suggest that this be somehow reworked to drop the +1 AND the Medium+ and instead use advantage/disadvantage.

My suggestion

Old Power Description:

Gnomish Agility: Adept at avoiding the attacks of the ‘Big Folk’, you gain +1 to your Armor Class against creatures of Medium-size and larger. If your size is not already Small, your size becomes Small.

New Power Description

Underfoot: Adept at using the clumsiness of your attackers in your favor, melee attacks against you gain disadvantage. If your size is not already Small, your size becomes Small.
 

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