+1 to existing spellcasting class, Ranger, Paladin

[Herzog]

If a Prestige Class does not require spellcasting, but DOES progress it,

would Paladin or Ranger be eligable for the spellcasting progression before level 4?

I understand you can't qualify, because you do not have a caster level or spellcasting before level 4, but are they considered 'spellcasting classes' before that level?

If not, can you provide a reference?

 

[Voadam]

It would depend a little on the exact wording.

for instance the thaumaturgist prc says

When a new thaumaturgist level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class.

Gaining a level in the spellcasting class of ranger when you are a third level ranger would put you at level 4 which grants spells.

Most prcs that grant increased casting though also require casting as a prerequisite. The thaumaturge for instance requires a prerequisite of being able to cast lesser planar ally. Is there an example you can think of where a prc does not require casting as a prerequisite but grants increased casting?

 

[Herzog]

The prestige class I had in mind is the Dragonslayer from the Draconomicon.

requirements:

Base Attack Bonus: +5.
Feats: Dodge, Iron Will.
Skills: Tumble 2 ranks

In my case, I would enter the PrC with two levels of Ranger.​

The Dragonslayer grants +1 spellcasting at levels 1, 3, 5,7 and 9.
Assuming the Ranger would be eligable, I would gain spellcasting at lvl 3 of the PrC, but that would be better than no increase in spellcasting at all (since the only other class it would be applicable to would be Spellthief, of which I have only 1 level, and falls under the same 'problem' area as Paladin and Ranger....)​

 

[TanisFrey]

It would to you effective ranger level before you calculate you caster level.

A 5th level ranger takes the DragonSlayer PRC for the first time. He is Now considered a 6th level ranger for spelling casting.

He gains two more levels of DragonSlayer. He is now a Ranger 5/DragonSlayer 3 and is considered a 7th level ranger for spell casting.

Add two more levels of DragonSlayer. He is now a Ranger 5/DraonSlayer 5 and is considered a 8th level ranger for spell casting.


If you are not going to make the spellcasting a primary concern for you ranger then do it, as you will lag behind other rangers in spellcasting. If you go this route I hope that your PC considers the abilities worth it.

 

[Herzog]

I understand that, but that was not the question.

The question is: is a ranger considered a 'spellcasting class' before reaching lvl 4 in regards to casting progression?

 

[irdeggman]

Yes he should.

There is a difference between "caster level" and "levels in a spellcasting class".

For example a 1st level paladin can use a wand of cure light wounds even though he has no caster level yet.

 

[Drowbane]

I understand that, but that was not the question.

The question is: is a ranger considered a 'spellcasting class' before reaching lvl 4 in regards to casting progression?

Yes. Oh, you want textual backup for that? Why? You already have "well, Brew said I could..." and that should be more than enough for any reasonable DM.

 

[frankthedm]

I understand you can't qualify, because you do not have a caster level or spellcasting before level 4, but are they considered 'spellcasting classes' before that level?

If not, can you provide a reference?

Sure I can provide a reference that paladins and rangers below 4th level are not spellcasters. Sure some will disagree, but I think the the text is conclusive enough.

Spells
Beginning at 4th level, a paladin gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the paladin spell list.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Spells
Beginning at 4th level, a ranger gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the ranger spell list.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Magic Overview
A spell is a one-time magical effect. Spells come in two types: arcane (cast by bards, sorcerers, and wizards) and divine (cast by clerics, druids, and experienced paladins and rangers). Some spellcasters select their spells from a limited list of spells known, while others have access to a wide variety of options.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Choosing A Spell
First you must choose which spell to cast. If you’re a cleric, druid, experienced paladin, experienced ranger, or wizard, you select from among spells prepared earlier in the day and not yet cast (see Preparing Wizard Spells and Preparing Divine Spells).

Spell Trigger...
(This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.)

 

[TanisFrey]

If a ranger 3rd level can qualify for a PRC that grants +1 spellcasting and that ability is applied to ranger, he can now cast spells as a 4th level ranger.

Does the PRC you are looking for require spell caster ability, like must be able to cast 1st level spells (or higher)? If so then no you cannot qualify, but if there is not this requirement then, yes, you can qualify for the PRC.


There are a few PrC that grant +1 spellcaster level without requiring the ability to cast spells, like some of the Racial Paragon classes and the elf-friend class that a cannot remember the name of from Races of the Wild.

 

[irdeggman]

If a ranger 3rd level can qualify for a PRC that grants +1 spellcasting and that ability is applied to ranger, he can now cast spells as a 4th level ranger.

Does the PRC you are looking for require spell caster ability, like must be able to cast 1st level spells (or higher)? If so then no you cannot qualify, but if there is not this requirement then, yes, you can qualify for the PRC.


There are a few PrC that grant +1 spellcaster level without requiring the ability to cast spells, like some of the Racial Paragon classes and the elf-friend class that a cannot remember the name of from Races of the Wild.

This is what it is.

They are "spellcasters" but they can't "cast x level spells". It depends on what the prerequisite states.