101 roleplaying descriptions justifying martial dailies
- Thread starter Aberzanzorax
- Start date
tomBitonti
Hero
So ... I think a part of the problem is that 4E makes a very (very!) thin attempt to explain why dailies (and encounters) are limited (besides game balance). This is one of my strong criticisms of the edition: The reasoning behind the mechanics is hidden. There is a similar problem with Rituals, in that the listed rituals expose hardly any generating structure at all. There was a lot of richness in the magic system in 3.5E, and it's just gone in 4E. That is unfortunate, since rituals could have been a very rich subset of the game.
Going back to encounter and daily powers, I think a good approach would be to categorize why a power might have limited uses.
I can think of two general explanations.
1) Strain. The power is just too hard to use without a lot of effort. Rage falls in this category. Some spell-like effects could be like this.
2) Tricks. The power works as long as your opponent isn't on guard for it.
After a bit of thought, I keep wondering if the whole debate is unfortunate, in that it could have been avoided with the addition of the two keywords Strain and Trick (or perhaps, Strain: Mental and Strain: Physical), where any use of a Strain ability after the first imposes a cumulative -2 modifier to mental or physical checks of all sorts, and any use of a Trick was at a -4 penalty if used twice in someones view.
The addition of just that little bit of explanation allows all sorts of details to be added. For example, what happens if you use a trick on someone who knows the same trick?
Thx!
TomB
Going back to encounter and daily powers, I think a good approach would be to categorize why a power might have limited uses.
I can think of two general explanations.
1) Strain. The power is just too hard to use without a lot of effort. Rage falls in this category. Some spell-like effects could be like this.
2) Tricks. The power works as long as your opponent isn't on guard for it.
After a bit of thought, I keep wondering if the whole debate is unfortunate, in that it could have been avoided with the addition of the two keywords Strain and Trick (or perhaps, Strain: Mental and Strain: Physical), where any use of a Strain ability after the first imposes a cumulative -2 modifier to mental or physical checks of all sorts, and any use of a Trick was at a -4 penalty if used twice in someones view.
The addition of just that little bit of explanation allows all sorts of details to be added. For example, what happens if you use a trick on someone who knows the same trick?
Thx!
TomB
The Human Target
Adventurer
Why can first level wizards only cast one sleep spell per day?
I guess some of us just don't really seem to understand why Martial Dailies are unique in requiring an explanation, and why daily powers never seemed to bother people until 4E. I think it stirs controversy among 4E supporters because of how frequently *some* of the 4E critics bring in emotionally charged arguments that often mischaracterize Martial Powers into being "spells for melee classes" and Second Wind as being "a heal spell for every class".
The arguments are generally misleading and seem to coming from an established bias against 4E that discounts reasonable fluff explanations as being unacceptable. In general, most of the criticisms are disingenuous, and seem to be more of justifications for not liking a new systems, since other equally arbitrary mechanics have always existed without such a furor.
I NEVER heard people complain that "once per day" powers in 3E effectively made other classes into casters!
For some reason, some people can accept the limits of spell casting due to mental fatigue, mental stress, focus, and the level of mental discipline and arcane knowledge. Apparently going from Arcane to Divine doesn't seem to be much of a stretch. When it turns into a limit in how many days a bard can do his bard perform power, nobody questions the per day basis. I never heard anyone ask "why can't my barbarian rage more often", or "why can my Rogue only do his Defensive Roll once a day?"
So, how do you explain Martial Daily Powers? It's a doomed debate because it's really an arbitrary dislike. People can accept Vancian and even 4E style powers when they are magical, but not martial. It's an arbitrary distinction, that is just as arbitrary as tons of other rules that are in 4E, and in every previous edition of D&D ever made.
Personally, I don't see why it can't merely be just the physical counterpart of the fatigue, stress, discipline, experience, focus, and knowledge required for other disciplines with other power sources to perform their abilities.
Maybe you need better fluff than that, but personally I prefer to explain an interesting combat maneuver to explaining why a seasoned and experienced war veteran just stands still and does round after round of full attacks (or even repeatedly performs some combat shtick over and over again that he built his character for).
The arguments are generally misleading and seem to coming from an established bias against 4E that discounts reasonable fluff explanations as being unacceptable. In general, most of the criticisms are disingenuous, and seem to be more of justifications for not liking a new systems, since other equally arbitrary mechanics have always existed without such a furor.
I NEVER heard people complain that "once per day" powers in 3E effectively made other classes into casters!
For some reason, some people can accept the limits of spell casting due to mental fatigue, mental stress, focus, and the level of mental discipline and arcane knowledge. Apparently going from Arcane to Divine doesn't seem to be much of a stretch. When it turns into a limit in how many days a bard can do his bard perform power, nobody questions the per day basis. I never heard anyone ask "why can't my barbarian rage more often", or "why can my Rogue only do his Defensive Roll once a day?"
So, how do you explain Martial Daily Powers? It's a doomed debate because it's really an arbitrary dislike. People can accept Vancian and even 4E style powers when they are magical, but not martial. It's an arbitrary distinction, that is just as arbitrary as tons of other rules that are in 4E, and in every previous edition of D&D ever made.
Personally, I don't see why it can't merely be just the physical counterpart of the fatigue, stress, discipline, experience, focus, and knowledge required for other disciplines with other power sources to perform their abilities.
Maybe you need better fluff than that, but personally I prefer to explain an interesting combat maneuver to explaining why a seasoned and experienced war veteran just stands still and does round after round of full attacks (or even repeatedly performs some combat shtick over and over again that he built his character for).
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It has to do with the flow of the Antipodal Inspirations through the 288 Sublime Interstices, along with the Octantal Occultations of the Six Numinous Nodes of Ineffable Tractility.
cangrejoide
First Post
Now why is it so hard to come up with an explanation for fighter dailies when you can do what you just did so easily?
Creating balanced, playable mechanics for a game system is the overriding reason for the power framework. It's like you're asking 'why do objects fall, besides gravity?'. I could make something up, but it would be BS.
The reasoning is crystal clear (you said it yourself, it's game balance). What's hidden, or rather, unstated, are the ways the mechanics get narrated during play. That's left up to the individuals playing. Gamers are supposed to be an imaginative lot. I'm sure they'll think of something (as you do, farther on in your post. See, it's not so hard).
Perhaps the 4e editors should have spend time and page count explaining that 4e sometimes resembles an effects-based rule system like Champions/HERO. That the rules focus on the mechanical effects, and it's up to the DM/players to describe how they actually look in the game world.
That's an excellent question. Stubbornness?
Pbartender
First Post
20. LIMIT BREAK! You have to believe yourself to be in a truly desperate situation. Against all odds, you try to even the score.
