15 Minute NPCs

[takasi]

This is like saying "how come you have such a hard time getting dinner? I just walk into McDonalds and pick a random Value Meal from the big boards above the counter."

Using that analogy, Mearls assertion that 4th edition is 'fast' doesn't mean it's better. It could just be the McDonaldization of NPCs.

 

[Wolfspider]

Now that the party I run adventures has entered into relatively high levels (14th), it's taking a bit longer to create NPCs to match them. But it's certainly nothing like 90 minutes. I'd say in lower levels I'd spend 5 to 10 minutes on a detailed important NPC; now it's something like 15-20. Mooks and such take much, much less time.

I agree with the OP that NPC creation in v3.5 for me has not been a time consuming thing. However, I'm not surprised that it would be for some people. I'm sure DM's focus on different things when creating NPCs, and that can add a lot of variables to the process.

This being said, I still sometimes will spend much longer on an NPC. I enjoy the process of creating interesting and challenging characters, after all.

If time is of the essence, though, I can pop them out like Gizmo on bath night!

 

[Benben]

Takasi here's where it takes time for me to do a high level npc in my games. I'll define high level as anything greater than 12th level.

1.) Choose Class - 5 minutes: Okay getting to skill monkey/fighter/arcane/divine/psion is pretty easy. After that I'll take a few minutes looking over all of the new classes in all of my supplements and see which works best.

2.) Determine Ability Scores - 5 minutes. I always use point buy to make high level npcs. They're as special as PCs in my games so I usually have to optimize this a bit.

3.) Pick Race - 1 minutes: This writes itself, and I hate using freakshow races for the most part.

4.) Pick Skills - 10 minutes. For a high level npc with possible boosts to Int during their career and doubtless Prestige class pre-reqs this takes time to balance. This is especially true for skill monkies.

5.) Pick Feats - 15 minutes. Between countless source books and prestige classes I'll be tweaking things back and forth for a while to make sure everything is a feat well spent.

6.) Equipment - 30 minutes. Taking in NPC gold amounts and the deciding what the party should get if they kill the npc is a very careful balancing act.

7.) Spells - 15 minutes. PHB2 lists doesn't cover half of the sources of spells I have, and I like each spell caster to have an interesting theme.

8.) Put it all together - 15 minutes. Go over everything, and add an extra 15 minutes if I'm using a weird race or monster combination.

Start to finish - 96 minutes.

Fortunately high level NPCs are rare in my game. Additionally I would add half an hour to get their backstory fully fleshed out so they will have some story hooks beyond whatever plot element is important to them for the current scenario.

I am not slow at math, my slowdown is getting something balanced against high level PCs in D&D 3.5.

 

[takasi]

If you still think you can create an interesting NPC that is complete and mathematically correct in 15 minutes then give it a shot and post your NPC here. Time yourself. Try making it mid to high level. Let's see how well you do.

Just give me a race and a class, including prestige, and I'll give it a shot. If anyone else wants to try they are welcome to.

Edit: To clarify, just give me ONE class (it can be prestige) and ONE race (any monster you'd like). Also, I'll pick an arbitrary CR. Let's say...16th.

 

[Thyrwyn]

PHB 2 will let you make an NPC. It may not let you make the NPC you actually want.

This. . . or one that will be interesting to run or run into.

. . .Foodies don't let foodies do Mickey D's

Greetings from State College

 

[Wolfspider]

All I can say to the OP:

If you're that fast now, imagine how fast you'll be using 4e!

Goodness, if it got any faster, I'd be afraid that I'd never get to actually run a game because the speed of NPC creation would cause the world to spin backwards and time run in reverse.

 

[xechnao]

This.
It takes time if you want to do anything interesting with feat choice, multiclassing, spell selection, or the like. That's what he's talking about.

What you are addressing: the same problem will exist in 4e. The more choices you have available to make something interesting the more time it will take. OTOH, the simpler something is the less time it will need:

But in first edition, I could just write in the room description for my homebrew (4 Orcs are torturing a maiden with hot iron pokers... (HP 4,5,6,3) and be done with it. And that takes less than 1 minute.

There is this general rule regarding design choices around a simple matrix, such as the d20 system for example or anything like it.

 

[Wormwood]

I agree with the OP that NPC creation in v3.5 for me has not been a time consuming thing. However, I'm not surprised that it would be for some people. I'm sure DM's focus on different things when creating NPCs, and that can add a lot of variables to the process.

It wasn't so much the time involved which irritated me---although that did irritate me---it was that the entire process seemed unnecessarily like 'work'. Tedious, fiddly work at that.

 

[Wormwood]

Goodness, if it got any faster, I'd be afraid that I'd never get to actually run a game because the speed of NPC creation would cause the world to spin backwards and time run in reverse.

 

[takasi]

This. . . or one that will be interesting to run or run into.

I completely disagree.

IME, some players (including me) can feel cheated if the world, including NPCs, are generating using meta-game knowledge. If they are built organically using tables and charts they may not always be 'optimized' but they are just as much fun to play and run because they feel natural.