1E help!

[Rothe]

When I get all the stuff from DD, I will try using the rules as written with the exception of a few 3.5 rules:

Off hand attack at -5
Ready shield Doubles bonus
Stand Defensively
WP gives +1 to attack.

That and the ft movement of 3,5 rather then yards.

What does a weapons speed factor mean anyway?

I like the WP gives +1 to attack, is that a basic D&D or 2e thing? IIRC (books at home) WP was the weapons you chose so you didn't get a penalty.

On movement, I thought it was in inches? Definitively something left over from Chainmail and sandtable/tabletop tin soldier games. As a rate for cuatious dungeon exploring never gave it much thought, but as anything close to how fast a person can really nove in 30 seconds or 1 minute, really, really slow. Not much of a problem until someone needs to runaway as fast as possible. For comparison, a 1 mph is 88 ft/min.; a 10 minute mile is 528 feet/min. or 18" under outdoor AD&D scale where 1"=10 yards and that's a slow jog.

Weapon Speed Factor was used for initiative, but I think only in the case of ties and/or situations involving spells. AD&D initiative is probably the single most unecessarily confusingly and poorly presented aspect of the game. You really never get an idea of exactly how it is supposed to work nor is it laid out in one section, anywhere. There are pieces here and there. You haven't even begun to ask about the segment thing.
If you want an idea of what BTB AD&D initiative may be about search for a document called ADDICT, I think you can find it at Dragonsfoot.org.

 

[DungeonMaester]

I like the WP gives +1 to attack, is that a basic D&D or 2e thing? IIRC (books at home) WP was the weapons you chose so you didn't get a penalty.

On movement, I thought it was in inches? Definitively something left over from Chainmail and sandtable/tabletop tin soldier games. As a rate for cuatious dungeon exploring never gave it much thought, but as anything close to how fast a person can really nove in 30 seconds or 1 minute, really, really slow. Not much of a problem until someone needs to runaway as fast as possible. For comparison, a 1 mph is 88 ft/min.; a 10 minute mile is 528 feet/min. or 18" under outdoor AD&D scale where 1"=10 yards and that's a slow jog.

Weapon Speed Factor was used for initiative, but I think only in the case of ties and/or situations involving spells. AD&D initiative is probably the single most unecessarily confusingly and poorly presented aspect of the game. You really never get an idea of exactly how it is supposed to work nor is it laid out in one section, anywhere. There are pieces here and there. You haven't even begun to ask about the segment thing.
If you want an idea of what BTB AD&D initiative may be about search for a document called ADDICT, I think you can find it at Dragonsfoot.org.

1) Can't say where its from rather then it was somehting I added on the spot.

2) Could be Inches. I prefer squares though.

3) Spam the Inish Mod! 2d6 Works well enough.

4) What is up with the segment thing? I cant even find any info on it.

On a side note- I was curouis to how the 1st level monk in the party would compare to the 1st level cleric. Cleric has Plate mail and shield which puts her AC at 2. The Monk's favored weapon is the quaterstaff. To hit, the monk gets a -7, that is before thaco and any bonuses. Sorry, but the weapon chart is out of the question.

As the other concern about extra attacks, even if a character is dual wielding, if he makes more attacks then his limit for the turn, then they are off hand attacks at the -5.

So: 7th level ranger whom has a long sword and a short sword can attack with both with no -5 because he has the attacks a round to use them both.

1st level ranger who has the same weapons only has 1 attack a round can make a normal attack with the long sword but takes a -5 on the next attack.

---Rusty

 

[Rothe]

1) Can't say where its from rather then it was somehting I added on the spot.

Well it looks good. Do NPCs get it as well is a question.

2) Could be Inches. I prefer squares though.

I know. A poor joke really. Inches being actual inches in sandbox wargames. I was a big fan of hexes though, never liked to have to remember the square root of two thing. Now I'm all about the offset squares.

3) Spam the Inish Mod! 2d6 Works well enough.

Now 2D6 I like that. IIRC most common was 1D6 each side, low die goes first kind of initiative.

4) What is up with the segment thing? I cant even find any info on it.

It has to do with when a spell goes off and is related to the difference in the two sides initiative dice and, maybe, the actual number rolled. Now the difference was between D6's but there are 10 segments in a round, so I forget if there are 4 forsaken segments or not.

On a side note- I was curouis to how the 1st level monk in the party would compare to the 1st level cleric. Cleric has Plate mail and shield which puts her AC at 2. The Monk's favored weapon is the quaterstaff. To hit, the monk gets a -7, that is before thaco and any bonuses. Sorry, but the weapon chart is out of the question.

Low level monks are fairly weak, what helps them is the high min ability score requirements to even become a monk. The cleric, IMHO, is one of the most powerful classes across the board in AD&D. Multiclassing non-humans are also powerful. Plate mail at first level is really good, and makes the cleric even more powerful.

As the other concern about extra attacks, even if a character is dual wielding, if he makes more attacks then his limit for the turn, then they are off hand attacks at the -5.

So: 7th level ranger whom has a long sword and a short sword can attack with both with no -5 because he has the attacks a round to use them both.

1st level ranger who has the same weapons only has 1 attack a round can make a normal attack with the long sword but takes a -5 on the next attack.

I think the -5 off-hand is good. IIRC AD&D did "allow" for two weapon use (i.e., it is a single snetence somewhere in the PHB or DMG) but at a serious off-hand penalty which I thought was -4.

My thing with two weapon use, from a pure game design perspective, if there is no upside to single weapon use won't everyone who can go dual weapon? Even with -5 to hit why not try? From a versimilitude perspective, people didn't flock to two weapon use. History being the best tester of ideas (at least when it comes to the best way for humans to kill each other) makes me think there is a downside. Maybe there isn't but from a game balance, logical consequences for how people fight in your world perspecitve, maybe you want to add a penalty.

Here's what I'm thinking. If you dual wield you get a -1 to attack with the on-hand weapon and -5 with the off hand. Or maybe -2 with the on-hand and -4 with the off-hand.

So it becomes a tactical choice for the palyer. Do I go with a single weapon to avoid the -1, or go with two weapons and hope I hit the second time enoough to make it worth while. Now against low AC threats dual weapon may be the way to go, hack them goblins, against the high AC threats you may want a single weapon to maximize chances to hit.

 

[RFisher]

If DungeonMaester & his players are having fun with the rules changes he made, then what could possibly be wrong with them?

Nothing wrong. But if you come asking for help, I'm going to tell you about the things that I've found have improved my gaming so that you can try them & see if they improve your gaming too.

 

[DungeonMaester]

Well it looks good. Do NPCs get it as well is a question.

Yes.

I know. A poor joke really. Inches being actual inches in sandbox wargames. I was a big fan of hexes though, never liked to have to remember the square root of two thing. Now I'm all about the offset squares.

won't touch that one then. Although I did have inch to square conversation rate. i think it came when I measured a box to see how many inches it was. 1''- 5 feet. So lets see...10'' would be 5 squares or 25 feet.

Now 2D6 I like that. IIRC most common was 1D6 each side, low die goes first kind of initiative.

It has worked well thus far.

It has to do with when a spell goes off and is related to the difference in the two sides initiative dice and, maybe, the actual number rolled. Now the difference was between D6's but there are 10 segments in a round, so I forget if there are 4 forsaken segments or not.

I checked pg 39 on time, and it says each combatant gets 1 min in a round with ten round for ten min full circle. With in the 1 min action you get segments, which each segment representing 6 seconds in a round. Thus, a spell which is 10 segments takes a min to cast, or a full round action.

Low level monks are fairly weak, what helps them is the high min ability score requirements to even become a monk. The cleric, IMHO, is one of the most powerful classes across the board in AD&D. Multiclassing non-humans are also powerful. Plate mail at first level is really good, and makes the cleric even more powerful.

if the monk dropped the stick for open hand attack, he could be the strongest character of the group. making saving throw to deflect any attack is really nice. This is..despite not using weapons armor.

I think the -5 off-hand is good. IIRC AD&D did "allow" for two weapon use (i.e., it is a single snetence somewhere in the PHB or DMG) but at a serious off-hand penalty which I thought was -4.

My thing with two weapon use, from a pure game design perspective, if there is no upside to single weapon use won't everyone who can go dual weapon? Even with -5 to hit why not try? From a versimilitude perspective, people didn't flock to two weapon use. History being the best tester of ideas (at least when it comes to the best way for humans to kill each other) makes me think there is a downside. Maybe there isn't but from a game balance, logical consequences for how people fight in your world perspecitve, maybe you want to add a penalty.

Here's what I'm thinking. If you dual wield you get a -1 to attack with the on-hand weapon and -5 with the off hand. Or maybe -2 with the on-hand and -4 with the off-hand.

So it becomes a tactical choice for the palyer. Do I go with a single weapon to avoid the -1, or go with two weapons and hope I hit the second time enoough to make it worth while. Now against low AC threats dual weapon may be the way to go, hack them goblins, against the high AC threats you may want a single weapon to maximize chances to hit.

That is what ready shield/Stand defensively is for. Extra attack where you have to roll a nat 20 pretty much, or bump you ac so you are harder to hit.

---Rusty

 

[dcas]

if the monk dropped the stick for open hand attack, he could be the strongest character of the group. making saving throw to deflect any attack is really nice. This is..despite not using weapons armor.

The monk only saves vs. missile weapons IIRC; he does not get a saving throw to deflect melee or unarmed attacks.

Btw, the monk's attacking on the thief tables is an error. He should attack on the cleric tables. I don't recall whether you had houseruled the attack tables, but the monk is meant to be slightly stronger than the thief, but not as strong as the fighter.

High-level monks are deadly but it is difficult for them to get to high levels!

 

[DungeonMaester]

The monk only saves vs. missile weapons IIRC; he does not get a saving throw to deflect melee or unarmed attacks.

Btw, the monk's attacking on the thief tables is an error. He should attack on the cleric tables. I don't recall whether you had houseruled the attack tables, but the monk is meant to be slightly stronger than the thief, but not as strong as the fighter.

High-level monks are deadly but it is difficult for them to get to high levels!

Thanks for the heads up. I actually just used the open hand table on page 31 for the amount of attacks a monk has.

---Rusty

 

[DungeonMaester]

This is the party composition thus far

Monk of the Northern Wind Temple
Assassin of the Crimson Ninjas
Cleric of the High Order
Bard of the Wandering Trails
Psion of No-man's Land

---Rusty

 

[dcas]

Thanks for the heads up. I actually just used the open hand table on page 31 for the amount of attacks a monk has.

Oh, THAT's fine. But the monk's "THAC0" is the same as the cleric's rather than that of the thief's.

 

[DungeonMaester]

Duly noted.

Really, the Hit adjustment chart is the only thing I break away from RAW. Other then 1 stat point every three levels.

If a Ranger has 1 attack a round, and a bow that has a firing rate of 2, can the ranger fire two?

---Rusty