"+2 bonus to ..." feats

[1500run]

i've often seen people complain that the feats that give a +2 bonus to a duo of skills are too weak to be worthwhile feats; that burning a precious feat slot for something that does improve as levels increase is not worth taking, especially given the relative power bump that feats have enjoyed in every book past the PHB.

i am talking, of course, about feats like Acrobatic, Agile, Alertness, Animal Affinity, Athletic (done with the A's...), and so on.

while these feats are nice at low levels, the benefit of having a +2 bonus to two skills quickly becomes irrelevant as skill points accumulate, magic items and spells are utilized with greater frequency, and enemies become tough enough to laugh at paltry intimidate, hide, or move silently checks (to name a few). rogues, for example, get so many skill points with every level increase that a +2 bonus is almost meaningless, and expecting a rogue to take Stealthy (natural partners, it would seem) is a pipe dream, given the range of more useful feats to choose from.

so i have two questions:
1) am i wrong? are these feats, in fact, not woefully underpowered, especially at higher levels?
2) if they are underpowered, would a suitable fix be to grant the +2 bonuses when the feat is taken, and bump that bonus by +1 every three levels?

i know this is far from a new topic, but let me hear what you think, and post any similar house-rules you employ.

*speeling edit*

 

[Crothian]

You are not wrong

I'd be tempted to have them also make the skills become class skills.

 

[Nifft]

They are often viewed as underpowered. There are some reasons to allow them to remain underpowered:

1/ "Suck it up" prerequisite for a powerful Prestige Class or powerful feat; and

2/ Some new rules allow skill checks to have direct combat benefits, so every +2 to e.g. Concentration would give you a significant combat bonus (for some characters); and

3/ An expansion of #2: future rules may make certain skills more valuable, even minor relative increases. This reason is kinda weak, though.

- - -

The least disruptive change IMHO would be to allow those two skills to count as class skills for all your classes. That way, you wouldn't be able to go much above the expected skill cap at any given level, but you'd get a bunch of flexibility.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Odysseus]

They only reason I ever use these feats is if I want to use them on skills I max out, and use regularly. The +2 gives you a +2 above the normal level max, which is a useful advantage if chosen carfeully.

 

[rgard]

You are not wrong

I'd be tempted to have them also make the skills become class skills.

That's the only way I can see making them more attractive.

 

[SokenzanMarauder]

In my games I have this little system I call a Trait System. It basically allows players to take some of the less desirable feats every so many levels without 'wasting' a feat on them.

I could post it here for you if you'd like.

-Gene

 

[kaomera]

I dig the idea of making those skills automatic class-skills, there's pretty much no downside there. I do think they can be viable if you already have those skills as class skills (and therefore can max them out), but I might even bump them up to a +3 bonus where they effect skills that are already on your class list, just to encourage players to take them.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

There was a discussion about this about half a year ago.. and sometime before that as well...

The end result for my HR folder is as follows:

Skill Focus provides:
+ 3 to the chosen skill
The chosen skill becomes a class skill for the character
At 7th rank, and every 3rd rank after, the bonus increases by +1


An alt "This skill and that skill" feat is changes similarly to provide:
+ 2 to each of the related skills
At 8th rank, and every 5th rank after, the bonus increases by +1


THere are a number of other ideas in the thread Here ...

 

[EvilGM]

Even giving out a feat per level, I don't see any players take these feats. But thats okay. Not every feat needs to be for the players. These feats are good for low level monsters and NPCs to give them an edge at some skills without boosting their power level.

The next campaign I run will have skills figured a little differently... ranks 1-4 cost 1 point each, ranks 5-8 cost 2 points each, ranks 9-12 cost 3 points each, etc. Under these rules, I wouldn't be surprised if these feats (and skill focus) are taken.

You could add a one per day reroll on a skill check using one of the skills the feat boosts. Additionally, they would qualify as luck abilities for the various rules in complete scoundrel.

 

[1500run]

thanks everyone, keep 'em coming!