2 Questions: Attribute Points & Paladin Detect Evil

[Chain Lightning]

Hello all, I'm starting a new campaign with D&D 3e and I'd thought I'd come in here and ask for some advice.

Question #1: I'm having my players buy their attributes with the point buy system. Y'know, the system where you start at 8 and buy up your attributes. The DMG suggests different starting values. I feel that perhaps 25 points is too low. But I'm not sure what would be too high. Is 30 too high? Or just right?

I could use some suggestions here on how many points would make proper characters for my players. Of course I want them to have at least one high attribute that's associated with their chosen class and the rest filling out the average to above average stats.


Question#2: This may be a little stickier of a question. From previous experience in DMing 3e, I've found that the Paladin ability to Detect Evil anytime anywhere for free was a pain in the rear to keep game balanced.

So, this time....I'm going to modify it a bit. Yes, yes....in other words, I'm going to NERF it.

It could be argued that, by watering down this ability, I take away from the constructive game balance of the Paladin. The game designers had balanced this class already (with Detect Evil in mind). So if I were to weaken it, I would be gimping the player who plays the Paladin in my game.

I've had discussions before on how to properly DM detect evil in my game without changing the ability. But frankly, it was still either a problem or the center of my DM concentration. In other words, I ended up spending most of my mental energy keeping Detect Evil balanced in every situation/story than on any other aspect of my DMing. Which I don't like. I like to concentrate on the story, the immersiveness of the enviroment, my role-playing of NPCs, the exciting action sequences, etc.

So, I have decided to modify it. I believe other DMs may have done this as well. So if you don't mind parting with some of your own suggestions on how you've modified Detect Evil, I'd love to hear them.

Some ideas on how to do this from off the top of my head are:

---Require the Paladin to hold up his holy symbol (in the direction he wishes to detect evil) to invoke his Detect Evil ability, say some prayers aloud, concentrate for a round and then the ability activates. If he wishes to Detect Evil in another direction, he must start the process over. The ability is still free.

---Require the Paladin to make a concentration check. Modified by level and Charisma? If so, what would be appropriate Difficulty number?

Anyways, thanks for reading my post and helping.

 

[NoOneofConsequence]

How about an opposed roll paladin's wisdom versus the evil being's charisma? Perhaps modified by Knowledge [Religion] vs. Bluff?

 

[thegreatbuddha]

I always liked the idea of treating a paladin's Detect Evil exactly like the spell, as the description implies. This would, of course, include the Verbal, Somantic, and Divine Focus requirements of said spell, as well as any AoOs incurred by casting it. Effectively, the paladin has an infinite number of 1st level spell slots that can only be used for Detect Evil.

 

[Chain Lightning]

Okay, some good ideas so far. Anyone else have suggestions? Also like to still hear on what you think would be a good amount of starting points for Attributes. Thanks.

 

[Crothian]

With attributes it really depends on what type of scores you want. With 30 points I doubt you'll have characters with any negative attribute modifiers. Or you might get some with an 18 and 17, and the rest lousy. For what you want one high, the rest average, I think this will work okay. With one 18 the rest could be all 11s and 10s.

 

[Xylix]

Question #1:

The level of attributes you grant should be proportional to the level of 'heroism' that you want the players to exibit. If you want fairly run the mill players 25 is fine, if you want heroic players 30 works. If you want epic heroes that stand above the competion 35 works wonders. If you want walking legends 40 is always a good start.

I usually vary it depending on the story I am telling, and how many players I have. In one on one games handing out 35, 40 or evn 45 isn't all that strange, as often the player will be all alone in a very nasty world.

However, I usually tone this down with more players, as the players don't need quite as much of a boost to chop their way through troubles.

On a side note I moved the point costs as follows:

8-13: One character point
14-18: Two character points

for starting stats, I usually grant +1 point for anyone willing to lower one statistic and ROLEPLAY it

The change was to encourge players that are extremely aware of how every event effects their power to take non-traditional point buy scores. In otherwords to allow an 18 if the player wishes it without completely dumping a slew of scores, and to discourage strait 14s, which I saw far to often on the old point buy system. Infact, the only time I saw higher than 14 was on main ability scores, which where usually only 16, as it is I don't see many 18s as it hurts other statistics heavily.

What you do should be dependent on how you want your players to look. I perfer 'heroic' heroes. Some people perfer lower statistics. Of course I also keep in mind what I assign to NPCs (usually 15 for trash, 20-25 for any fighting NPC of note, such as guards or soldiers).


Question #2

I always infavored good and evil only being detectable when manifested through either extreme acts, or supernatural forces. In otherwords good and evil are not detectable on the mortal relm, and as such cannot be detected, unless the individual is strongly supernatural, or was involved in extreme evil deeds.

This makes things far far harder. Another option is to make accusations on 'alignment' illegal slander, which could land the PCs in Jail. Acting on alignment alone a hate crime that could end up with a death sentance. That would make players think twice.

Finally, you can always say they detect evil 'EVERYWHERE' because everyone they have to deal with is evil, and they have to choose the lessar of the paths. After the paladin adjust to having to deal with or even temporarily ally with people that are not so wholesome he will think twice before killing someone who is evil. Also consider the possiblity of mixing in 'good' villians

A good way to tackle this is with a strongly Chaos-Law centered dispute instead of good and evil. The fun of this direction is you may have your players split on the best decision.

However, if need be having a concentration check, or overt action on the player's part is a good limitation. This has the added effect of allowing you to play NPCs that are so checked as annoyed and insulted. Thus making the player a little more catious in his application.


Oddly in the last Paladin I played detect evil was never an issue. As my Paladin 'detected' evil by looking for archetypical villian looks. So yes he was comming down on all those fellows in dark cloaks. Then again he had 5 intelligence....