D&D 5E 2024 D&D is 2014 D&D with 4E sprinkled on top

[CreamCloud0]

Okay.

You are still openly and directly expressing an anti-martial, pro-caster bias. Because that's what that is. No martial is going to be an "alchemist", and any "alchemist" is going to be some kind of caster in the D&D milieu. No martial is ever going to benefit from this, but every martial is now cut off from something that no caster is cut off from.

I dislike game design that is openly prejudicial against certain player preferences and not others solely for the reason that certain people get annoyed by effects that have a baseline effect even if the full effect failed to happen unless it fits their preferences.

not to mention that as rule of thumb, there seems to be a large percentage of players/DMs who hate any form of gunpowder or similar explosive existing in their medieval fantasy setting, either because 'it feels anachronistic' or to prevent players from exploding the big bad with 30 barrels of the stuff.

 

[Aldarc]

Yup. One of my issues with it, and far from the most important. But it's not like there aren't plenty of non-4e games out there to play, so it doesn't matter personally.

Did you know that fireball in 4e does damage on a "miss" too? 4e in some ways has to use this language because there are no saving throws in 4e; it's all roll to hit. I suppose they could have called it a "partial hit "instead, but at the end of the day, it's really just petty semantics and people making special grandfather clause exceptions for game mechanics that they grew up with.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

not to mention that as rule of thumb, there seems to be a large percentage of players/DMs who hate any form of gunpowder or similar explosive existing in their medieval fantasy setting, either because 'it feels anachronistic' or to prevent players from exploding the big bad with 30 barrels of the stuff.

And now I am reminded of the time four shirtless halfling barbarians blew up the entire goblin fort in BG3 by filling the whole place with copious amounts of explosives. One of the best uses of the 1812 Overture I've ever seen.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Okay.

You are still openly and directly expressing an anti-martial, pro-caster bias. Because that's what that is. No martial is going to be an "alchemist", and any "alchemist" is going to be some kind of caster in the D&D milieu. No martial is ever going to benefit from this, but every martial is now cut off from something that no caster is cut off from.

I dislike game design that is openly prejudicial against certain player preferences and not others solely for the reason that certain people get annoyed by effects that have a baseline effect even if the full effect failed to happen unless it fits their preferences.

I'm concerned more with what makes setting sense than exactly how the rules work and who is "favored".

 

[Micah Sweet]

not to mention that as rule of thumb, there seems to be a large percentage of players/DMs who hate any form of gunpowder or similar explosive existing in their medieval fantasy setting, either because 'it feels anachronistic' or to prevent players from exploding the big bad with 30 barrels of the stuff.

That's unfortunate, and not something I agreewith personally. There's no accounting for taste.

 

[BrokenTwin]

And now I am reminded of the time four shirtless halfling barbarians blew up the entire goblin fort in BG3 by filling the whole place with copious amounts of explosives. One of the best uses of the 1812 Overture I've ever seen.

That... was amazing.

Also, I get not wanting guns in your medieval fantasy pastiche (industrial fantasy is another story), but a LOT of the standard equipment listed in the PHB was created well after the discovery of gunpowder.

 

[Joshua Randall]

To kick up a fuss because it is nicknamed by fans as "damage on a miss" when...it is literally damage you deal...even though you've not hit their AC...

In fairness, it is quite literally labeled as damage on a miss in 4e.

Driving Attack​

You drive back your adversary with a hail of blows.

Daily ✦ Invigorating, Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon

Target: One creature

Primary Attack: Strength vs. AC

Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and you push the target 1 square. You then shift 1 square to a square the target vacated. Make a secondary attack against the target.

Secondary Attack: Strength vs. Fortitude

Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage, and you push the target 2 squares and knock it prone.

Miss: Half damage, and you push the target 1 square.


Published in Martial Power 2, page(s) 8.

but to accept with open arms if it were nicknamed, say, "automatic damage"...I just don't understand it. It's openly irrational, not even bothering to hide behind subjectivity.

But yeah, maybe with 20/20 hindsight, we wish it would've been labeled "Automatic Damage", and then the powers could've been rewritten so Daily powers always do Automatic Damage... and then more damage on hit? That feels weird now, but might feel totally normal if it had "always" been that way (since 2008, anyway).

 

[Joshua Randall]

the time four shirtless halfling barbarians blew up the entire goblin fort in BG3 by filling the whole place with copious amounts of explosives

I have watched a lot, and I mean a lot, of BG3 "blow up the world" videos... and that one was BY FAR the most glorious. So thank you, sincerely, for brightening my day.

 

[dave2008]

"Not hit" and "missed" are synonyms by most people's standards. And I'm not saying that this is the sole problem with the concept for everybody. I'm not a huge fan of any ability that can't fail to have an effect, for example.

Wait, so you are not a fan of fireball and a bunch of spells that have damage on a successful save?! I would not have suspected that!

EDIT: Just noticed you already responded to others on this, so never mind

 

[Joshua Randall]

Wait, so you are not a fan of fireball and a bunch of spells that have damage on a successful save?! I would not have suspected that!

That doesn't have the word "miss" in it, so it's totally different.

I'm... not entirely sarcastic, here.