D&D (2024) 2024 PHB Feats and Misc discussion

[MarkB]

One way to make some 1st level feats seem more attractive is if WOTC decides to go whole hog on prerequisites.

Do you want Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master at level 4? Well, you needed to take Savage Attacker at level 1.

Sentinel or Resilient? You needed to have taken Tough.

That would also make synergies between feats like Polearm Master and Sentinel come online way later in the game. That is one way they could do it anyway, I would prefer they simply buffed the more lackluster 1st level feats.

That's very similar to what they did with both feats and class features in Star Wars Saga Edition. In SWSE you'd gain Feats and (class-based) Talents at alternating levels, and Talents weren't tied to a specific level - you could take any Talent you qualified for when you levelled up. But some Talents, and some Feats, were built with prerequisites such that they had to be taken in a certain order.

 

[TerraDave]

One way to make some 1st level feats seem more attractive is if WOTC decides to go whole hog on prerequisites.

Do you want Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master at level 4? Well, you needed to take Savage Attacker at level 1.

Sentinel or Resilient? You needed to have taken Tough.

That would also make synergies between feats like Polearm Master and Sentinel come online way later in the game. That is one way they could do it anyway, I would prefer they simply buffed the more lackluster 1st level feats.

I do think that we are not seeing the whole picture. For the Krynn book, they were proposing feat trees, and that of course could make these look very different.

For savage attacker, I have seen a lot of dumping on it. But if the die is say a d10 or d12, that should be a noticeable bump in damage, which will make a difference, at least at lower levels.

 

[pnewman]

One thing they said about these starter feats is they want them to also work for characters whose schtick matches the feat. So they would want Tavern Brawler to be useful for a Monk.

Custom Background - Bouncer - +2 CON, +1 WIS, Skills - Perception and Intimidation, Tool - Brewer's Supplies, Language - Dwarvish, Feat - Tavern Brawler

"I used to be the bouncer at the Inn of the Welcome Wench. One day a whole squad of Draconians came in and started a brawl. I was doing fine at first but there were just too many of them. Mr Miyagi stepped in to help me, and later he taught me how a true unarmed warrior fights."

Class - Monk

 

[Ruin Explorer]

For savage attacker, I have seen a lot of dumping on it. But if the die is say a d10 or d12, that should be a noticeable bump in damage, which will make a difference, at least at lower levels.

Not really.

On a d12, the most extreme possible example, it averages a little under +2 damage on one hit (which would be smaller as a value of DPR).

And that's on a d12, so only Greataxes.

On a d10 it's close to +1.6 damage on one hit. d8, 1.3, and so on.

You can use Anydice to check this if you want to disagree. Once you get multiple attacks, it becomes a smaller proportion of your damage. Also note it only applies now to the Attack Action, not to Opportunity Attacks, Bonus Action Attacks, etc. etc. - So like if you missed with your mainhand or the main attack of your polearm (with PAM), it cannot apply to your offhand. This is a nerf from the previous performance.

For a Great Axe Barbarian focused solely on damage, who is level 1-4, it's not a completely terrible choice, though I'd say it's objectively inferior to almost all the other choices in terms of overall impact on the game. Anyone else? It's pretty bad, and notably, it gets less and less important, whereas a lot of the Feats retain utility.

Feel-wise it'll be a mixed bag, because you're going to see an awful lot of "I rolled middle or less on both dice... ".

 

[TerraDave]

Not really.

On a d12, the most extreme possible example, it averages a little under +2 damage on one hit (which would be smaller as a value of DPR).

And that's on a d12, so only Greataxes.

On a d10 it's close to +1.6 damage on one hit. d8, 1.3, and so on.

You can use Anydice to check this if you want to disagree. Once you get multiple attacks, it becomes a smaller proportion of your damage. Also note it only applies now to the Attack Action, not to Opportunity Attacks, Bonus Action Attacks, etc. etc. - So like if you missed with your mainhand or the main attack of your polearm (with PAM), it cannot apply to your offhand. This is a nerf from the previous performance.

For a Great Axe Barbarian focused solely on damage, who is level 1-4, it's not a completely terrible choice, though I'd say it's objectively inferior to almost all the other choices in terms of overall impact on the game. Anyone else? It's pretty bad, and notably, it gets less and less important, whereas a lot of the Feats retain utility.

Feel-wise it'll be a mixed bag, because you're going to see an awful lot of "I rolled middle or less on both dice... ".

1.6 at low levels is pretty good. There is also the question of how it would work for crits. In any case I think for many characters it would more of an impact then most of the other level 1 feats.

Presumably they feel that doing this for every attack would be too strong. It would solve the scaling issue.

 

[Mistwell]

One way to make some 1st level feats seem more attractive is if WOTC decides to go whole hog on prerequisites.

Do you want Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master at level 4? Well, you needed to take Savage Attacker at level 1.

Sentinel or Resilient? You needed to have taken Tough.

That would also make synergies between feats like Polearm Master and Sentinel come online way later in the game. That is one way they could do it anyway, I would prefer they simply buffed the more lackluster 1st level feats.

And I started a whole other thread on why that would be a terrible idea. It accomplished exactly the opposite of the stated goals for first level feats, demanding a level of system mastery from beginners.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

There is also the question of how it would work for crits.

Well, the reroll mechanic is the same as now, and the generally accepted reading is that if you use Savage Attacker on a crit, you re-roll the weapon damage dice from the crit, so like with a Longsword crit you do 2d8, so you'd reroll that 2d8 and take whichever total was best.

Anything less makes it even worse.

In any case I think for many characters it would more of an impact then most of the other level 1 feats.

I don't agree, unless you run an utterly combat-centric game. It ups your DPR, if you're a weapon-based melee with a two-hander doing 1d10 or 1d12 damage, by like, 1 point a round on average (remember per-hit isn't DPR).

I don't think "many" characters fit into that, and I don't think the impact of that is going to be anywhere near as big as say, Magic Initiate, or Skilled. Skilled alone is going to have a huge amount of impact over the life of a character.

 

[Horwath]

One way to make some 1st level feats seem more attractive is if WOTC decides to go whole hog on prerequisites.

Do you want Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master at level 4? Well, you needed to take Savage Attacker at level 1.

Sentinel or Resilient? You needed to have taken Tough.

That would also make synergies between feats like Polearm Master and Sentinel come online way later in the game. That is one way they could do it anyway, I would prefer they simply buffed the more lackluster 1st level feats.

no thanks, I had my fill of taking Point black shot in 3.5e every time I wanted to play archer. Or Dodge for some kind of skirmisher.

 

[James Gasik]

I wouldn't have minded Point Blank Shot if it's bonus wasn't so trivial. Precise Shot should have been the opening Feat.

 

[Horwath]

I wouldn't have minded Point Blank Shot if it's bonus wasn't so trivial. Precise Shot should have been the opening Feat.

that was the problem with Point blank shot, if you are using it, you are using archery wrong.