D&D (2024) 2025's Ancient Green Dragon Stat Block From The New Monster Manual

The new ancient green dragon from the 2025 Monster Manual was previewed at Gen Con.

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[Siravia]

I wonder how this (likely final) removal of Legendary Actions will affect Mythic monsters. Maybe their future is something like the Gem Greatwyrm's Mass Telekinesis action or the Cradles/Scions from Bigby's?

 

[Amphytrion]

It is in the concept art, but much smaller:

View attachment 375034

You can also see it in the update Tiamat image, but again smaller:
View attachment 375035

Thank you for the pictures! I like it better as a small detail, and it does look weird when increased in size (does it hurt when the dragon coils?).

Nonetheless, the art piece is still fantastic. Love the puppeteering angle.

 

[dave2008]

I wonder how this (likely final) removal of Legendary Actions will affect Mythic monsters. Maybe their future is something like the Gem Greatwyrm's Mass Telekinesis action or the Cradles/Scions from Bigby's?

I've wondered the same thing, here was my solution:

 

[dave2008]

I was just reading some posts about the 2024 ancient green dragon on redit and they were in general much more favorable than here. In particular there was a lot of love for rend and how it was much easier and flexible than the old claw/bite/tail.

I may be changing my opinion of rend. Though I still think there is a need to give a suggestion on how to flavor / revise it to be different types of attacks. I am definitely going to put some thought into this.

 

[Demetrios1453]

I was just reading some posts about the 2024 ancient green dragon on redit and they were in general much more favorable than here. In particular there was a lot of love for rend and how it was much easier and flexible than the old claw/bite/tail.

I may be changing my opinion of rend. Though I still think there is a need to give a suggestion on how to flavor / revise it to be different types of attacks. I am definitely going to put some thought into this.

I mean, three rends can simply equal claw/claw/bite, and the Reaction ones can be tail or further claw attacks (I'd make any declared tail attack to be bludgeoning through). I wonder if there's flavor text that we haven't seen to reflect this.

 

[Stalker0]

I mean, three rends can simply equal claw/claw/bite

That's how I would do it myself. The rend is a generic enough description that I can flavor it how I want round to round. Frist round the dragon cuts into the party with its claws and slams them with a wing. Next round, a party member takes a bite, and is crushed down by the dragon's jaws (the other two attacks) barely able to get out of its mouth before being swallowed!

You now have a lot more flavor flexibility in what the attacks represent.

 

[dave2008]

That's how I would do it myself. The rend is a generic enough description that I can flavor it how I want round to round. Frist round the dragon cuts into the party with its claws and slams them with a wing. Next round, a party member takes a bite, and is crushed down by the dragon's jaws (the other two attacks) barely able to get out of its mouth before being swallowed!

You now have a lot more flavor flexibility in what the attacks represent.

You could do all of that with separate claw, bite, wing, and tail attacks too.

I'm still thinking this over. I like the simplification, but I also feel it could restrict some DMs and not be the creative foundation it is for you. I also like small variations in the attack (reach, effects, etc.) which I can do on the fly, but I am not sure all DMs can.

My experience from 4e is that many people feel stuck to only using what is explicitly in the stat block. Not an issue I had, but one I have seen many times. That is leading me to try to find a happy middle between the two - I am just not there yet.

 

[dave2008]

Yep, I can't think of way to make this (rend) work and not make it more difficult for new DMs.

 

[dave2008]

I mean, three rends can simply equal claw/claw/bite, and the Reaction ones can be tail or further claw attacks (I'd make any declared tail attack to be bludgeoning through). I wonder if there's flavor text that we haven't seen to reflect this.

Yes, I don't have any concern about me using rend, i am concerned about new DMs who may not be willing to improvise like that. I have a host of things I can think to do to modify rend on the fly to make it feel like a bite, claw, tail, or wing attack, but I think a lot of DMs don't have that tool kit / experience to pull it off.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Yep, I can't think of way to make this (rend) work and not make it more difficult for new DMs.

Adult and older dragons should be high(ish) level solo boss monsters. They don't need to be super noob friendly. When you face one, you've presumably already played through several levels. And as they're often fought as solo, the GM needs to only worry about this one statblock, so it can be more complex.