D&D (2024) 2025's Ancient Green Dragon Stat Block From The New Monster Manual

The new ancient green dragon from the 2025 Monster Manual was previewed at Gen Con.

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[Zaukrie]

Yes, I don't have any concern about me using rend, i am concerned about new DMs who may not be willing to improvise like that. I have a host of things I can think to do to modify rend on the fly to make it feel like a bite, claw, tail, or wing attack, but I think a lot of DMs don't have that tool kit / experience to pull it off.

I have no idea how this is harder. I just think people here over estimate how much description people put in attacks and stuff. This is way way way easier to run. That's the key when starting. Plus, it seems unlikely a new DM will run this high level creature to start.

 

[Stalker0]

You could do all of that with separate claw, bite, wing, and tail attacks too.

DM: Alright the dragon crunches down on you with its massive jaws, and you take 20 damage.
Player: Ok, and how much of that was poison damage?
DM: What do you mean?
Player: Well last round when you did the bite it did poison damage.
DM: Oh....well it didn't do poison damage this time.
Player: Why not?
DM: well....ehem.....I actually used the claw on that attack, just flavored it as a bite.

Now a lot of tables won't give a crap, but for some who actually want the mechanics to match the flavor, having 3 "generic" attacks that can be flavored as any dragon body part gives flavor flexibilty vs where each body part has specific damage and damage types.

 

[dave2008]

I have no idea how this is harder. I just think people here over estimate how much description people put in attacks and stuff. This is way way way easier to run. That's the key when starting. Plus, it seems unlikely a new DM will run this high level creature to start.

I am not necessarily talking about easier to run. I am talking about more interesting and thematic. For example I might do something like this:

Round 1: Poison Breath; spend all three rend reactions on a tail sweep (40-foot cone, 1 rend attack on each target in the cone, on hit the target is pushed 20 feet and knocked prone)

Round 2: claw (rend)/ claw (rend) / bite (rend + 1 reaction rend and target grappled); remain 2 reactions as appropriate.

Round 3: claw (rend)/ claw (rend) / bite (rend + 1 reaction rend); wing attack (cost 2 reactions) rend attack on each creature within 40 feet, hit half damage, and dazed. Then dragon can fly up to half its speed without OA.

But can a first year DM do that? Can veteran DMs do that? IDK.

 

[Stalker0]

But can a first year DM do that?

I really hope the DMG doesn't encourage brand new DMs to run CR 22 monsters!

 

[dave2008]

DM: Alright the dragon crunches down on you with its massive jaws, and you take 20 damage.
Player: Ok, and how much of that was poison damage?
DM: What do you mean?
Player: Well last round when you did the bite it did poison damage.
DM: Oh....well it didn't do poison damage this time.
Player: Why not?
DM: well....ehem.....I actually used the claw on that attack, just flavored it as a bite.

Now a lot of tables won't give a crap, but for some who actually want the mechanics to match the flavor, having 3 "generic" attacks that can be flavored as any dragon body part gives flavor flexibilty vs where each body part has specific damage and damage types.

This, IMO, is nonsense. You can also flavor a claw or bite attack however you want. Are you suggesting the name makes a difference?

To me, It is not an issue of flavor or description or matching mechanics. It is about giving DMs the tools they need to tell the story. For some the rend is great, for others it is not. I would think those for whom the rend works would also be flexible enough to flavor a claw or bite however they want, but perhaps I am wrong.

 

[dave2008]

I really hope the DMG doesn't encourage brand new DMs to run CR 22 monsters!

From what I see on these forums, many people get through a 1-20 campaign in about 6 months to a year. A year into playing D&D you are still a new DM IMO. So are you suggesting a DM should not use a CR 22 monster against there level 15 group?

 

[Stalker0]

This, IMO, is nonsense. You can also flavor a claw or bite attack however you want. Are you suggesting the name makes a difference?

I mean yes, that was literally your platform for this entire argument

They changed the name of claw/claw/bite to rend/rend/rend.

How is saying "this rend is flavored as a claw, and this rend flavored as a bite" any more challenging than "this claw is a claw, this claw is flavored as a bite but uses the mechanics and damage of the claw"

 

[Crimson Longinus]

From what I see on these forums, many people get through a 1-20 campaign in about 6 months to a year. A year into playing D&D you are still a new DM IMO. So are you suggesting a DM should not use a CR 22 monster against there level 15 group?

I sure hope that a GM with six months of experience of running the game could handle a monster having several attacks that do different things!

 

[dave2008]

I mean yes, that was literally your platform for this entire argument

They changed the name of claw/claw/bite to rend/rend/rend.

How is saying "this rend is flavored as a claw, and this rend flavored as a bite" any more challenging than "this claw is a claw, this claw is flavored as a bite but uses the mechanics and damage of the claw"

We are talking around each other. I am absolutely not talking about the name. I am fine with just having the attack called a rend. What I want is guidance for DMs on how to modify the mechanics of that rend attack to match the description of the attack in the fiction I am describing. Like I did here: post 213

 

[dave2008]

I sure hope that a GM with six months of experience of running the game could handle a monster having several attacks that do different things!

I'm not sure what you are suggesting. I think that is assumed in anyone's argument. And I will say I have seen DMs with years of experience only do exactly what is written on the stat block.