2nd Edition Weapon Speeds - Anyone Else Miss Them?

[TBeholder]

Speed factors were in 1e too. Even Gygax didn't use speed factors; he said so on these boards. Go ask him about it on the thread at the top of the page.

Not "too", that's the only time Speed Factor could make sense.

The problem with Speed Factor is that usually it makes shorter weapons go before longer ones. Derp. Right?
It's not inherently nonsensical, however - it's out of context.
Common sense tells me Speed Factor would be useful:
1) For determining surprise. E.g. if you drop out of invisibility and start swinging a poleaxe, the other guy is not very likely to be still too flatfooted to dodge it by the time you'll go through with this - but shanking someone with a dagger is another matter entirely. Or
2) If it actually meant attacking more or less often (perhaps with caveats).
Indeed, it came from AD&D1 - which had time quantization with "segments" smaller than "rounds" (which were retained, along with turns, despite being less than meaningful), allowing to have indeed different frequencies. But this approach as implemented in AD&D1 turned out to be an unholy mess and was ditched in AD&D2, while Speed Factor remained as an atavism.
Now, e.g. Hackmaster has continuous time too, and it uses weapon speed - but then, it doesn't have 3 arbitrary time units in the way, just seconds.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Not "too", that's the only time Speed Factor could make sense.

First, quoting someone 15 years later seems bizarre, but it happens.

Second, yes, "too," as the original poster cited them - speed factors - as being in 2e. I was simply stating that speed factors were in 1e, also, regardless of which came first, because the poster was talking about 2e as his initial subject. I can't even recall if they were carried into 2e, as 2e was never my favorite edition.

The rest I can't speak to. It's been something like 35 years since I last bothered with speed factors.

 

[TBeholder]

Arghdammit. Accidentally necromanced again.

Next question: which games use weapon speed other than AD&D1, AD&D2 (in an atavistic way), EQ and Hackmaster?

 

[happyhermit]

Arghdammit. Accidentally necromanced again.

Next question: which games use weapon speed other than AD&D1, AD&D2 (in an atavistic way), EQ and Hackmaster?

5e provides the option in the DMG.

 

[Jhaelen]

Next question: which games use weapon speed other than AD&D1, AD&D2 (in an atavistic way), EQ and Hackmaster?

Well, in "Das Schwarze Auge" (The Dark Eye) weapons have an initivative modifier. The modifiers are meant to represent the combined effect of weapon speed and weapon length, though.

Apropos weapon length: This also seems to be an important factor in some RPG systems, probably more important than weapon speed (which is arguably harder to determine exactly).

 

[Derren]

Weapon length should actually the deciding factor for an initative modifier instead of speed, with longer weapons going first. Simply to balance out the fact than in RPGs you usually can't kill anything in a single hit, yet the ability to get this killing it in before the enemy attacks was the entire point of longer weapons.

 

[aramis erak]

Arghdammit. Accidentally necromanced again.

Next question: which games use weapon speed other than AD&D1, AD&D2 (in an atavistic way), EQ and Hackmaster?

Several other BRP derivatives use the same strike rank mechanic as ElfQuest, which includes a weapon speed factor.

ISTR that it was an option in a supplement for rolemaster.

 

[Celebrim]

Yes, I miss them. But there is only so much complexity a system can absorb, and later editions of D&D have replaced that particular complexity with other forms of complexity. I might put them into a cRPG engine in some form (along with weapon length, and weapon vs. AC or type of armor modifiers), but I can't justify putting them back in without taking something else more important out.

 

[Celebrim]

Weapon length should actually the deciding factor for an initative modifier instead of speed, with longer weapons going first. Simply to balance out the fact than in RPGs you usually can't kill anything in a single hit, yet the ability to get this killing it in before the enemy attacks was the entire point of longer weapons.

On the first round of combat, weapon length did determine initiative (ok, I know, it's more complicated than that...). Wieldiness only came up on later rounds.

If I was going for maximum granularity, weapon length would determine initiative in the first round, and grant a bonus to active defense in later rounds - that bonus being negatable with a successful 'clinch' maneuver to close the distance.