D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Charge Problems [restarted - got too far off-topic]

[Orz]

Considering that said rules were expanded by 3 times their original length, I'd be forced to think that the section in parentheses must have received some attention. Based on that, I'm ruling that overrunning an ally is a completely valid option.

A friend and I spoke to Andy Collins about this at GenCon. He did agree after we showed him that the text under charge and the text under overrun is contradictory. He also said that the intention was to allow overruns of friendlies in a charge. Of course this was in the middle of a con with people making a ton of noise and hardly official errata.

 

[DrSpunj]

Still, that's good to know, Orz. Thanks!

Now, looking over the Overrun rules, you just have to hope that not more than one of your allies is in the way and they are of an appropriate size:

You can only overrun an opponent who is one size category larger than you, the same size, or smaller. You can make only one overrun attempt per round.

DrSpunj

 

[Storminator]

<SNIP>

And your diagram above illustrates very well the problem with Ride-by Attack, as the "Closest Square" would be the middle lane, leading directly to your target. Without using Overrun (which in spirit totally defeats the ability to ride BY with your attack) Ride-by Attack isn't an option under the Core Rules.

DrSpunj

Except we're counting squares, not measuring. All three of those "A" squares are exactly the same distance (measured in squares).

Here's my essential take on the matter. The rule isn't nearly as restrictive as you're making it out. It should have been written better tho, so that all the things you think were taken away, clearly aren't.

I hope to god your DM isn't going to take away your Ride-by...

PS

 

[Artoomis]

Except we're counting squares, not measuring. All three of those "A" squares are exactly the same distance (measured in squares).

Here's my essential take on the matter. The rule isn't nearly as restrictive as you're making it out. It should have been written better tho, so that all the things you think were taken away, clearly aren't.

I hope to god your DM isn't going to take away your Ride-by...

PS

Unless you house-rule, yes, the options are indeed taken away by virtue of:

1. You may not choose a square - equidistant ones randomly decided which is closest.

2. You cannot take a sqaure that mihgt not be closest - like to use a reach weapon in ride-by mode, for example.

 

[Anubis]

The rules for charging have not been changed people. You ALWAYS had to go in a direct straight line straight to your target. This has not changed. In fact, by reading all the text side-by-side, there are no changes at all in how these rules work.

 

[Camarath]

First, technically you can't overrun through allies:

Second, what penalty would you face if you attempted an overrun against an "opponent" (an ally that you've decided to hate temporarily so you can make it through her space) and she chose to step aside?

I think this sentence in the overrun rules covers your concerns.

"(You can always move through a square occupied by someone who lets you by.)"

IMO this in a general rule that allows anyone to lets anyone else through their square anytime they wish.

 

[Artoomis]

I think this sentence in the overrun rules covers your concerns.

"(You can always move through a square occupied by someone who lets you by.)"

IMO this in a general rule that allows anyone to lets anyone else through their square anytime they wish.

Except, of course, that charge quite clearly says you can;t do that.

That's the whole point. It's written poorly and conflicts with other rules.

 

[Camarath]

Except, of course, that charge quite clearly says you can;t do that.

That's the whole point. It's written poorly and conflicts with other rules.

Charge does say that you can't move through an occupied square. But, the overrun rules say you can use it with a charge action so you can just use overrrun to charge through the occupied squares. Of couse if you fail your overrun it would stop your charge.

 

[DrSpunj]

Charge does say that you can't move through an occupied square. But, the overrun rules say you can use it with a charge action so you can just use overrrun to charge through the occupied squares. Of course [sic] if you fail your overrun it would stop your charge.

Change "occupied squares" in this statement to "square" (singular). As I stated in my last post, by the Core rules you can only overrun once per round, so you'd better hope your target isn't the third in line. While this is realistic and valid if the 1st and 2nd creature's in your charge are opponents who have to decide if they're going to eat your charge to protect whoever you're after, I think it bites that I don't even get the option if our dwarven-barbarian in our party isn't paying strict attention to *my* charging lanes. If I use overrun to get by him, I have no chance to use it to get by the 1st rank of my enemy to reach my original target in back.

IME effective Ride-by charges were hard to come by in 3.0; now in the 3.5 Core rules several other restrictions have whittled that number down. Maybe not that much, but there weren't too many to begin with so it seems like a large chunk, nonetheless. As always, YMMV.

DrSpunj

 

[Number47]

Unless you house-rule, yes, the options are indeed taken away by virtue of:

1. You may not choose a square - equidistant ones randomly decided which is closest.

Now you're just being silly. I think it is fairly obvious that the rule states that when two people are equidistant from a location, not when two locations are equidistant to you. In other words, if a spell affects the closest person, and there are two people equally close, then it affects one of them randomly. Reading into it that you may not choose your own path while moving is such a tortured interpretation I can hear the rules scream.